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I have troubleshot my 25-35 pretty extensively, and while the buttstock IS shrunk some, has a crack and some missing wood and will be replaced, if the virtual shimming that does on the lower tang doesn’t correct the issue the piece has with the hammer riding the bolt home I will need the hammer built back up. Completely disassembled and cleaned the piece today. I’m an AO and just got done with three tours in SH-60 Seahawks; it was educational, seeing how John Browning just used ideas on the GAU-16 (M2 .50 cal for you land service people) he had already worked out 20 years before in the 1894. The pin that holds the lever into the breech bolt wouldn’t budge but outside that everything came apart pretty easily. The principle behind the finger lever pin is EXACTLY how the charging lever, breech bolt and carrier are connected together in the GAU (line pin up with hole and drive it out). Anyway, the notches and sear are all in good order, crisp notches all round and if you ear the hammer back it stays at fullcock. Somewhat hesitant to stalk E-pay just to get a similarly worn hammer….
Dave,
I read your post and don’t know what your questions is.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
I have had the issue of wear at the point that the bolt should cam the hammer back to fullcock.( letting the hammer ride the bolt back without locking )
And rather than weld the hammer , I have welded to build up the bolt under side at that contact point and re-fitted
I had to keep trying the camming relationship , by installing the pieces back in the gun and testing function , untill smooth levering keeps the hammer back. Less visible than welding the hammer. If I remember right about .010 build up does it .its not much
Lack of grease in this spot and many lever cycles eventually wears the camming relationship
Phil
That IS an interesting thought, but I would have thought the breechbolt would be heat treated and welding would disturb that. Spot on on less visible, too. Anybody on the Forum good at this?
There are several potential causes for your problem:
- Worn or Bad notch on the hammer, which would need to be welded and recut.
- Worn sear, best to replace.
- Worn Bolt or frame bolt guides, allowing the bolt to tilt up over the hammer.
- Loose lower tang, allowing the sear to come out of alignment with the hammer. This is often fixed by shimming between the lower tang and stock.
- Oversize hammer screw hole; best to drill out and press in a bushing.
Hope this helps
Mike
Mike Hunter said
There are several potential causes for your problem:
- Worn or Bad notch on the hammer, which would need to be welded and recut.
- Worn sear, best to replace.
- Worn Bolt or frame bolt guides, allowing the bolt to tilt up over the hammer.
- Loose lower tang, allowing the sear to come out of alignment with the hammer. This is often fixed by shimming between the lower tang and stock.
- Oversize hammer screw hole; best to drill out and press in a bushing.
Hope this helps
Mike
Sear and hammer notches are crisp. I assembled the hammer, hammer screw, trigger, sear and lower tang separately to inspect and see where the parts contact. No particular wear on the hammer where the sear drags before it catches in the notches.
Bolt, maybe, on the ‘rib’ that forces the hammer back to full cock just as the bolt starts retracting. Rebuilding that IS a low-impact option I had not thought of. The bolt doesn’t have much more free play than any other WRA levergun I have examined. There is significantly more wear on the hammer face where it bears on the bolt. I have always put a light coating of grease on this surface of Browning designed guns for this very reason.
Loose lower tang, possibly. Had planned to re-stock the piece anyway as the stock on the gun is missing wood and has been repaired once and is cracked again. The foreend will be more difficult to source, as I haven’t seen ANY repro foreends for button mag guns.
Oversize hammer screw hole, doubtful at best. No wear pattern on the screw and no end play test fitting just the hammer and screw. As I said, if you ear the hammer back it holds just fine.
Normally, when the issue is not readily apparent, then I start measuring with pin gauges and a micrometer. Absent that, parts swapping with known good parts.
I have seen quite a few Winchesters with the issue that you describe, 80% of the time it’s due to hammer/sear engagement. Comparing the hammer and sear to known good parts will shed some light.
Next up is a loose/worn bolt & frame guide rails, allowing the bolt to cam over the hammer.
Absent a known good bolt, with the stock removed, mount the rifle in a padded vise and slowly cycle the action while pushing down on the bolt. If it stays cocked, you may have found the issue.
For the lower tang, again mount rifle in vise, stock removed, slowly cycle the action while gently pulling down on the lower tang, then again while gently pushing up on the lower tang.
The only way to check the hammer hole is with a pin gage.
Also keep in mind that it can be a combination of the above factors.
As for a button mag forend, Winchester used a standard rifle forend wood.
V/R
Mike
It does seem to make a difference having the gun out of the wood, and it might just be a new properly fitted stock will address this issue. Which I planned to do anyway, except I haven’t found a source for repro drop-in stocks. Or even accurate reproductions.
If removing the stock makes a difference, then it’s a lower tang issue, for plain wood, Precision Gunstocks out of TX will hook you up
Mike
For a newly made, reproduction drop-in stock, you might contact a seller that goes by the handle “stkmkr12012” on eBay. He makes these stocks and occasionally has some for sale on ePay. Last year I got a 1892 buttstock that fit perfectly – the only drawback was that it had a poly finish, which I completely removed and redid with tung oil. (It even had the tang screw hole pre-drilled which was about 99.6% accurate.) http://www.ebay.com/itm/141879460545
"This is the West, sir. When the legend becomes fact, print the legend."
That gent sounds good, can he make the foreend for my button mag rifle? People say it’s a rifle foreend, but mine’s not inletted for the nosecap…
Wincacher said
For a newly made, reproduction drop-in stock, you might contact a seller that goes by the handle “stkmkr12012” on eBay. He makes these stocks and occasionally has some for sale on ePay. Last year I got a 1892 buttstock that fit perfectly – the only drawback was that it had a poly finish, which I completely removed and redid with tung oil. (It even had the tang screw hole pre-drilled which was about 99.6% accurate.) http://www.ebay.com/itm/141879460545
Just PMed him, and we’ll see what he says. The more I ponder on this, the more I think a good, tight fitting stock will address this issue.
Wincacher said
For a newly made, reproduction drop-in stock, you might contact a seller that goes by the handle “stkmkr12012” on eBay. He makes these stocks and occasionally has some for sale on ePay. Last year I got a 1892 buttstock that fit perfectly – the only drawback was that it had a poly finish, which I completely removed and redid with tung oil. (It even had the tang screw hole pre-drilled which was about 99.6% accurate.) http://www.ebay.com/itm/141879460545
Talked to this guy yesterday. Has anybody else used him? He mentioned he would rather me sent the piece out so he could fit the stock.
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