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June 12, 2013
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So what is the best way for a C&R holder to mail rifles or shotguns currently? Confusing for me. Also how to handle insurance on shipments
March 31, 2009
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antler1 said
So what is the best way for a C&R holder to mail rifles or shotguns currently? Confusing for me. Also how to handle insurance on shipments
A lot depends on where you live and what State it is going to. Antiques can go straight to the buyer. Modern guns usually need to go FFL to FFl. The gun shop where I hang out uses Fed Ex.
January 20, 2023
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The C&R 03 license doesn’t help you ship firearms differently than a non-licensee. (This confuses people because an 01 dealer can legally mail a C&R qualified firearm directly to an 03 licensee.)
There are two ways I know of for non-licensees and 03 licensees to ship long guns right now.
USPS Priority Mail Insured, provided you declare the gun and represent (a) there’s no live ammunition included and (b) the addressee is an 01 FFL. Not -repeat not– an 03 holder.
Same for UPS but only if you go through Gunbroker or similar qualified contractor for the shipping label, AND UPS will pick it up from your house and charge a fee for doing so.
Handguns are another matter. We are talking about rifles and shotguns.
- Bill
WACA # 65205; life member, NRA; member, TGCA; member, TSRA; amateur preservationist
"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.
June 12, 2013
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Chuck said
antler1 said
So what is the best way for a C&R holder to mail rifles or shotguns currently? Confusing for me. Also how to handle insurance on shipments
A lot depends on where you live and what State it is going to. Antiques can go straight to the buyer. Modern guns usually need to go FFL to FFl. The gun shop where I hang out uses Fed Ex.
I understand these parameters. What I’m not clear about is as a C&R holder what are the legal requirements for shipping via ups or fed ex or uses. And what is best. I’ve had terrible experience with anything shipped usps
June 12, 2013
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Zebulon said
The C&R 03 license doesn’t help you ship firearms differently than a non-licensee.
There are two ways I know of to ship long guns right now.
USPS Priority Mail Insured, provided you declare the gun and represent (a) there’s no live ammunition included and (b) the addressee is an 01 FFL. Not -repeat not– an 03 holder.
Same for UPS but only if you go through Gunbroker or similar qualified contract tor for the shipping label, AND UPS will pick it up from your house and charge a fee for doing so.
Handguns are another matter. We are talking about rifles and shotguns.
Thank you for clarification. However I am able to receive rifle shipments from an 01 ffl all the time so why am I not allowed to initiate a shipment
January 20, 2023
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I need to retract some of what I said. You can as an 03, mail a C&R qualified long gun directly to another 03 holder. I suppose I was thinking of handguns. Unless you have an 01, you can’t mail those even though they are C&R qualified. Not sure about relics.
- Bill
WACA # 65205; life member, NRA; member, TGCA; member, TSRA; amateur preservationist
"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.
June 12, 2013
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Zebulon said
I need to retract some of what I said. You can as an 03, mail a C&R qualified long gun directly to another 03 holder. I suppose I was thinking of handguns. Unless you have an 01, you can’t mail those even though they are C&R qualified. Not sure about relics.
Thank you. That makes more sense.
January 20, 2023
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Your original post included a query which carrier was best. Opinions differ but, because of the UPS decision to eliminate direct customer access to their service centers – the places where you could once hand over firearms (including handguns) for shipment; and the UPS decision to refuse ANY firearm for shipment directly from the general public, UPS is not a viable option for any but 01 dealers who have an ongoing firearms shipping account with UPS, with an odd exception:
Gunbroker has a deal with UPS whereby you can buy a UPS shipping label and print it. The catch is you have to schedule a pickup and the UPS driver comes to your door to get the box. There is an extra fee for that. You go online with GB and pay them. It doesn’t have to be a gun you sold on GB and I think handguns are o.k. if you buy OVERNIGHT service. Not sure about that. Other catch is the addressee MUST be an 01 dealer registered with GB. No shipments to an 03 licensee. Period.
I think there are other outfis that offer this service, Bud’s Guns in Nashville among them.
What it adds up to is this: UPS doesn’t want to deal directly with individual gun owners and small dealers without a storefront shipping account. UPS actually wants to deal with the public AT ALL only through its delivery van network and retail stores only.
Example: I wanted to ship several boxes of 350 Remington Magnum cartridges to the guy who bought my Model 600 Magnum I’d mailed to his 01 dealer. Couldn’t mail the ammo and the UPS Service Center had already closed to the public. UPS Store wouldn’t take them. I used my UPS online account to buy a GROUND service shipping label, some insurance, a $20 pickup charge, and waited for Big Brown to roll up.
I think FEDEX does something similar but i don’t know for sure.
For long guns, USPS is the only game in town that will let you hand the box over the counter, as far as I can see. The funnel has grown narrow.
- Bill
WACA # 65205; life member, NRA; member, TGCA; member, TSRA; amateur preservationist
"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.
January 20, 2023
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I should have added that you can always have your friendly local 01 dealer ship or mail a gun for you. Another fee. In the case of handguns, until recently it’s been the only option. There are relatively few 01 dealers here that will ship outbound. From $100 to $150 including postage and insurance for a handgun.
- Bill
WACA # 65205; life member, NRA; member, TGCA; member, TSRA; amateur preservationist
"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.
September 19, 2014
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Zeb and others, I have very recently had experiences that don’t fit any box of “how to”. Background is, I wanted to ship a 1935 vintage Fox shotgun for repair and return. Destination is a FFL repair facility. Local PO wouldn’t accept the shotgun as they wanted it to originate with an FFL, not an individual. Postal regs say I should have been able but it means 0 if the postmaster adn clerk won’t accept it. Potential explanation is they may have to consider IL laws and regs, but I haven’t gotten that clarified. Similarly they would not accept it from a C&R for same reason. There is one FFL in town they knew of and would accept. He on the other hand would only ship UPS, for a fee of course. So it cost me $150 when I would have gotten it there for about $100 had I been able to ship via USPS. We don’t have a source nearby to ship via FedEx, and the UPS center nearest (45 miles away) would only accept from a specific FFL there in the same town. The FFL here uses a UPS pickup out of an Iowa town. You can cite regulations and laws all you wish, what counts in the end is the application by your available venues. If there is a next time I will now know. But I hope there is no next time! Which I think is the desired end. Tim
June 12, 2013
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I watched an older Cinnabar video by Mark explaining some of this nonsense but I believe it was two years old. I’ve studied the USPS regs and are confusing.
UPS and FED EX rolled over to the past administration but I was hoping there were some new common sense regs under this new administration.
November 7, 2015
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antler1 said
I watched an older Cinnabar video by Mark explaining some of this nonsense but I believe it was two years old. I’ve studied the USPS regs and are confusing.
UPS and FED EX rolled over to the past administration but I was hoping there were some new common sense regs under this new administration.
Pat-
I agree, that may be by design. While the folks at Tim’s PO may be right to be concerned about state regulations I think they just don’t want to be bothered with figuring out how to do it correctly. I don’t think the state folks would normally go after USPS but they very well could go after the shipper. I’m hoping the folks at UPS and FEDEX will poke their heads out and notice the political winds have changed but we’re not seeing it yet.
Mike
January 20, 2023
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Tim, I expect there is a remedy for recalcitrant Mr. Adam Henry Postmaster but it is probably a process buried so deep in federal law it wouldn’t be practical to even find it, much less try to employ it.
Unless you live so far out in the hinterlands that his post office is the only post office for 100 miles, the solution would be around the problem rather than through it.
Given Illinois’ legislature and governor, I don’t know whether your State has tried to impose more burdensome mailing requirements –or whether they could. I do recall Congress has deliberately not preempted stricter state gun laws. Somebody would know,even though I don’t.
The closest I’ve come to something like this was selling a 1955 Model 94 to someone in Tennessee, whose backwoods 01 dealer wouldn’t accept a hrifle from a non-licensee. Fortunately, his competitor would.
I’ve never had a problem with our local P.O. – they seem to know their own regs pretty well, although I’ve never tested them by, say, mailing to a non-licensee intrastate, which is jake under current federal law and regs.
I’ve often wondered whether the Postal Service issues opinion letters like IRS and some other agencies do, opining in advance on the tax effect of a set of facts given to them. Such letters, which are published and maintained, are a valuable research tool for accountants and tax lawyers. If there is a corollary resource, I’d expect to find the post office position on some similar set of facts as yours. That might bring AHP around.
- Bill
WACA # 65205; life member, NRA; member, TGCA; member, TSRA; amateur preservationist
"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.
November 5, 2014
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Hi antler1-
This is probably irrelevant b/c I live in Virginia, West of the Blue Ridge in the “deep red” Shenandoah Valley, and my local post office serves only our rural area. But my Postmaster seems to know the regs…
If I SHIP a long gun (which I do only occasionally and always a C&R firearm), the only thing he wants to see is a copy of the receiving FFL so he can verify that the firearm is being shipped to a valid FFL address. He does not ask (or seemingly care) whether I have an FFL or not (although I do have an 03 C&R FFL).
When I RECEIVE a C&R long gun (a more frequent occurrence than my shipping one), they don’t ask for anything. I always have a copy of my FFL handy, but they don’t want to see it. That goes for his employees as well, but it’s a rural post office and they all know me… I guess they figure that the accepting post office was responsible for making sure that USPS rules were being followed (at the time they accepted the shipment), and that it’s not their job to back check other post offices’ work.
With long guns (since they don’t fit in my mailbox and require an adult signature), they just hold it at the local PO and leave a slip in the box out by the road. It has not mattered whether the C&R long gun being shipped to my C&R came from an individual, a fellow C&R holder, or an 01 FFL. These guys know that a long skinny box addressed to me (or a couple other addresses of FFLs in our locale) is a gun simply by the shape/weight of the package. No problems yet, knock on wood!!! I think (???) that’s how it’s supposed to work… 
Best,
Lou
P.S. If BATFE is following this thread, and I’m doing something wrong, then I hope they’ll reach out… The local office is in Martinsburg WVA, about 20 miles away as the crow flies… I’m so wanting to be “strictly legal” that I should be the least of their worries, as long as I’m understanding the Federal Regulations correctly.
WACA 9519; Studying Pre-64 Model 70 Winchesters
April 15, 2005
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Lou,
Your experience has been the same as mine. As long as you and your local P.O. adhere to the Federal regulations, the BATF is happy (regardless of what your State may have to say).
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
November 5, 2014
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Hi Bert-
I have not SHIPPED anything via UPS or FedEx in the last decade, nor do I have any experience with “modern” firearms or any handguns (modern or C&R). Not my “thing”… So I’ve no personal experience and I have not looked into what our local UPS/FedEx might require.
But I know RIA has shipped C&R long guns to me via UPS and Redding Auction the same via FedEx. I’m sure THEY (both being high volume shippers) have the necessary contracts with those shippers, but I do not. My C&R seems to work, however… At least for RECEIVING C&R firearms at my home (FFL) address shipped via UPS/FedEx.
About three years ago I received a relatively big shipment of C&R long guns via UPS that were from a fellow C&R licensee (C&R to C&R). But that was before the internal restrictions those businesses imposed during the previous Administration’s term, so I expect it’s completely irrelevant nowadays…
Lou
WACA 9519; Studying Pre-64 Model 70 Winchesters
January 20, 2023
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Lou and Bert, As you say, the local PO is the key. Elsewhere, it’s the occasional postal bureaucrat who creates trouble for the legitimate collector, particularly in States where the majority political party is hostile to gun owners. Not always, of course, although I’d guess King County might be different than Kitsap. By “trouble” I just mean a refusal to accommodate someone proposing to mail a gun, despite existing federal regulations that clearly allow it. Like what Tim had to go through.
I haven’t heard any horror stories of BATFE harassing 03 licensees because they misspelled “Winchester” in their bound logbooks, etc. Despite the former agency director’s adoption of a “zero tolerance” policy for minor errors and omissions. Agents in the field have enough rogue 01 and unlicensed dealers to worry about, not to even mention explosives.
However, I can’t say the same for the City of Chicago, whose police force does random snap searches in Union Station, checking luggage to catch arriving Amtrak passengers with a handgun in their just recovered, checked luggage. Despite federal “safe transit” laws to the contrary. New York City is no better. They seem to make a sport of it. In certain municipalities, “the process is the punishment.”
- Bill
WACA # 65205; life member, NRA; member, TGCA; member, TSRA; amateur preservationist
"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.
April 15, 2005
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Zebulon said
Lou and Bert, As you say, the local PO is the key. Elsewhere, it’s the occasional postal bureaucrat who creates trouble for the legitimate collector, particularly in States where the majority political party is hostile to gun owners. Not always, of course, although I’d guess King County might be different than Kitsap. By “trouble” I just mean a refusal to accommodate someone proposing to mail a gun, despite existing federal regulations that clearly allow it. Like what Tim had to go through.
I haven’t heard any horror stories of BATFE harassing 03 licensees because they misspelled “Winchester” in their bound logbooks, etc. Despite the former agency director’s adoption of a “zero tolerance” policy for minor errors and omissions. Agents in the field have enough rogue 01 and unlicensed dealers to worry about, not to even mention explosives.
However, I can’t say the same for the City of Chicago, whose police force does random snap searches in Union Station, checking luggage to catch arriving Amtrak passengers with a handgun in their just recovered, checked luggage. Despite federal “safe transit” laws to the contrary. New York City is no better. They seem to make a sport of it. In certain municipalities, “the process is the punishment.”
I avoid King, Pierce, Snohomish, and Thurston counties (the I-5 corridor) like the Black Plague!
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
December 21, 2006
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I guess this is one of the few advantages We have in Canada, if I live in Ontario and I sell You a long gun in any province I make sure You have a purchase and accuisition license, put a trigger lock on the gun, package it , send it directly to You via Canada post express with a tracking number and a signature for receipt, and that’s it. I guess somebody figured out these old guns are not being bought for assassination puposes, duh. Hanguns, whole different story.
W.A.C.A. life member, Marlin Collectors Assn. charter and life member, C,S.S.A. member and general gun nut.
April 15, 2005
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Henry Mero said
I guess this is one of the few advantages We have in Canada, if I live in Ontario and I sell You a long gun in any province I make sure You have a purchase and accuisition license, put a trigger lock on the gun, package it , send it directly to You via Canada post express with a tracking number and a signature for receipt, and that’s it. I guess somebody figured out these old guns are not being bought for assassination puposes, duh. Hanguns, whole different story.
It used to be almost that easy 40-years ago, but not today… too many far-left, Kool-Aid drinking ignorant people down here in the states.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
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