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April 15, 2005
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Glshuck said
Have only picked up a few vintage ammo boxes so far. I think I need to be careful about it though. I can already see myself finding a good deal on a box of ammo, and it costing me a lot of money to buy the gun to match it.
Here’s a box of .405 I just snagged. It was absolutely paramount that I own it, to pair with my Miroku 1895. Hopefully I can convince myself of that long enough to not overpay for an original .405.
It is a disease… I have five different Winchester factory boxes of 405 WCF ammo to go with my Single Shot high-wall rifle in that cartridge (the center rifle in my signature picture).
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
September 19, 2014
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IF you have an obviously nice box of ORIGINAL .405 ammo, you then NEED an ORIGINAL RIFLE to go with it!! Tim
November 7, 2015
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Joke in the casting community is purchasing a bullet mould and then looking for a gun that will use that bullet. I ran across some never-used moulds in a recent inventory so it seems I need a few more guns after all. Nope, no .405 moulds. Gonna leave that stone unturned for now.
Mike
September 19, 2014
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Oh, come on now, Mike! Think of the nostalgia, the fumes, how to heat your house…..A .413 300 grain (nominal) mould would do that so nicely!
And OLD SCHOOL, one at a time! None of this nonsense of two or more each cast. Tim
November 7, 2015
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tim tomlinson said
Oh, come on now, Mike! Think of the nostalgia, the fumes, how to heat your house…..A .413 300 grain (nominal) mould would do that so nicely!
And OLD SCHOOL, one at a time! None of this nonsense of two or more each cast. Tim
All kidding aside I enjoy using my old school Lyman single cavity moulds and even use an original Winchester mould now and then. Those big aluminum multi cavity moulds make a big pile of bullets in a hurry but using the single cavity Lyman moulds is almost therapeutic. They drop a nice bullet, too! My Winchester moulds have suffered a bit too much abuse over the last 100 years of so but they make a decent bullet. I don’t believe I’ve seen a Winchester .405 mould.
Mike
April 15, 2005
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TXGunNut said
tim tomlinson said
Oh, come on now, Mike! Think of the nostalgia, the fumes, how to heat your house…..A .413 300 grain (nominal) mould would do that so nicely!
And OLD SCHOOL, one at a time! None of this nonsense of two or more each cast. Tim
All kidding aside I enjoy using my old school Lyman single cavity moulds and even use an original Winchester mould now and then. Those big aluminum multi cavity moulds make a big pile of bullets in a hurry but using the single cavity Lyman moulds is almost therapeutic. They drop a nice bullet, too! My Winchester moulds have suffered a bit too much abuse over the last 100 years of so but they make a decent bullet. I don’t believe I’ve seen a Winchester .405 mould.
Mike
Well… go find one! I need somebody to make me some decent 300+ grain cast bullets for my 405 WCF Single Shot rifle.
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
February 17, 2022
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Bert H. said
TXGunNut said
tim tomlinson said
Oh, come on now, Mike! Think of the nostalgia, the fumes, how to heat your house…..A .413 300 grain (nominal) mould would do that so nicely!
And OLD SCHOOL, one at a time! None of this nonsense of two or more each cast. Tim
All kidding aside I enjoy using my old school Lyman single cavity moulds and even use an original Winchester mould now and then. Those big aluminum multi cavity moulds make a big pile of bullets in a hurry but using the single cavity Lyman moulds is almost therapeutic. They drop a nice bullet, too! My Winchester moulds have suffered a bit too much abuse over the last 100 years of so but they make a decent bullet. I don’t believe I’ve seen a Winchester .405 mould.
Mike
Well… go find one! I need somebody to make me some decent 300+ grain cast bullets for my 405 WCF Single Shot rifle.
There you go again Bert, enabling. This time it’s poor Mike. tsk tsk tsk.
November 19, 2006
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oldcrankyyankee said
Yes the ammo can get a bit pricey. But I keep an eye out for it and offen score a good deal. The problem of what to by next is when you start collecting antique ammo for the guns too. Oh god what have I done now?
Tom –
Your photos are a fine example of why I make my own ammunition. Yes, I’ve done it save money. But the other reason is illustrated by your photos. What you have there is simply too beautiful to shoot! I could not bring myself to do it. And if I did shoot it, I would be mourning the loss of each round. And exception might be if that round went into a big animal.
Loading my own allows me to shoot guilt-free.
This brings back a memory this morning. As many here know, my Dad’s first deer rifle was a .33 WCF. He used it several years and then bought a brand new Remington M740 .280. He subsequently loaned his .33 to his younger brother to use. I recall being in the woods with my Dad during the family deer hunt and we heard his brother fire off many shots. My Dad got real excited (not in a good way) about the rounds being expended. I specifically remember him muttering, “$5, $10, $15, $20” adding up the cost of the rounds. I don’t think a box of .33 ammo went for anything close to $100 back then but it had been long gone from the store shelves. As he didn’t go to gun shows I’m sure it was a puzzle to him where to find it.
Yes, loading your own is a very fine solution that covers a lot of bases.
November 7, 2015
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Well… go find one! I need somebody to make me some decent 300+ grain cast bullets for my 405 WCF Single Shot-Bert
Bert-
I would, but I’m having a great time working on the projects I’ve been putting off, I’ve been tinkering with my 38-55 project for over eleven years now and it’s still keeping me entertained. I get distracted easily. 
I’m thinking I may fire up my 20-1 furnace to pour some 38-55 bullets. I’m beginning to think my old workhorse 1894 doesn’t like the scavenged wheel weight alloy I’ve been feeding it. Good/bad thing is I’m really enjoying my rimfires and they don’t require any time in the room where the magic happens. I’m thinking your SS will probably prefer the good stuff, too. Have you slugged your .405?
Mike
February 17, 2022
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steve004 said
oldcrankyyankee said
Yes the ammo can get a bit pricey. But I keep an eye out for it and offen score a good deal. The problem of what to by next is when you start collecting antique ammo for the guns too. Oh god what have I done now?
Tom –
Your photos are a fine example of why I make my own ammunition. Yes, I’ve done it save money. But the other reason is illustrated by your photos. What you have there is simply too beautiful to shoot! I could not bring myself to do it. And if I did shoot it, I would be mourning the loss of each round. And exception might be if that round went into a big animal.
Loading my own allows me to shoot guilt-free.
This brings back a memory this morning. As many here know, my Dad’s first deer rifle was a .33 WCF. He used it several years and then bought a brand new Remington M740 .280. He subsequently loaned his .33 to his younger brother to use. I recall being in the woods with my Dad during the family deer hunt and we heard his brother fire off many shots. My Dad got real excited (not in a good way) about the rounds being expended. I specifically remember him muttering, “$5, $10, $15, $20” adding up the cost of the rounds. I don’t think a box of .33 ammo went for anything close to $100 back then but it had been long gone from the store shelves. As he didn’t go to gun shows I’m sure it was a puzzle to him where to find it.
Yes, loading your own is a very fine solution that covers a lot of bases.
Steve, I don’t shoot the ammo pictured. Those are just a few of my more collectable boxes. The stuff I shoot is more modern stuff I find here and there. I have the luxury of traveling right past a prominent auction house almost daily and I review their listings and pop in to look around. They move alot of ammo and I find obscure stuff there from time to time. That’s where the 150 grain 348 came from. Figured it was something that wasn’t very popular as it didn’t shoot well in the 71. But looks good next to my pre-war 71 deluxe.
Your story about your father counting $$$$ when he heard the shooting of his 33 reminds me of a something that just happened to me recently. I had my deluxe 33 out for the day deer hunting when I stumbled into a spike in the corner of my field the other day. I shot and missed and he trotted off over the wall. If I hadn’t been so concerned about recovering that $2 empty case I would have realized he stopped about 15 feet over the wall and was looking to see what scared him. By the time I recovered the case and saw him he was looking for a new zip code! Needless to say I am currently eating track soup.
November 19, 2006
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oldcrankyyankee said
steve004 said
oldcrankyyankee said
Yes the ammo can get a bit pricey. But I keep an eye out for it and offen score a good deal. The problem of what to by next is when you start collecting antique ammo for the guns too. Oh god what have I done now?
Tom –
Your photos are a fine example of why I make my own ammunition. Yes, I’ve done it save money. But the other reason is illustrated by your photos. What you have there is simply too beautiful to shoot! I could not bring myself to do it. And if I did shoot it, I would be mourning the loss of each round. And exception might be if that round went into a big animal.
Loading my own allows me to shoot guilt-free.
This brings back a memory this morning. As many here know, my Dad’s first deer rifle was a .33 WCF. He used it several years and then bought a brand new Remington M740 .280. He subsequently loaned his .33 to his younger brother to use. I recall being in the woods with my Dad during the family deer hunt and we heard his brother fire off many shots. My Dad got real excited (not in a good way) about the rounds being expended. I specifically remember him muttering, “$5, $10, $15, $20” adding up the cost of the rounds. I don’t think a box of .33 ammo went for anything close to $100 back then but it had been long gone from the store shelves. As he didn’t go to gun shows I’m sure it was a puzzle to him where to find it.
Yes, loading your own is a very fine solution that covers a lot of bases.
Steve, I don’t shoot the ammo pictured. Those are just a few of my more collectable boxes. The stuff I shoot is more modern stuff I find here and there. I have the luxury of traveling right past a prominent auction house almost daily and I review their listings and pop in to look around. They move alot of ammo and I find obscure stuff there from time to time. That’s where the 150 grain 348 came from. Figured it was something that wasn’t very popular as it didn’t shoot well in the 71. But looks good next to my pre-war 71 deluxe.
Your story about your father counting $$$$ when he heard the shooting of his 33 reminds me of a something that just happened to me recently. I had my deluxe 33 out for the day deer hunting when I stumbled into a spike in the corner of my field the other day. I shot and missed and he trotted off over the wall. If I hadn’t been so concerned about recovering that $2 empty case I would have realized he stopped about 15 feet over the wall and was looking to see what scared him. By the time I recovered the case and saw him he was looking for a new zip code! Needless to say I am currently eating track soup.
Tom –
I found this hilarious as I’ve been guilty of doing the same thing! For me, this is one of the few downsides of being a handloader – getting too obsessive about retrieving empty cases.
April 15, 2005
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TXGunNut said
Well… go find one! I need somebody to make me some decent 300+ grain cast bullets for my 405 WCF Single Shot-Bert
Bert-
I would, but I’m having a great time working on the projects I’ve been putting off, I’ve been tinkering with my 38-55 project for over eleven years now and it’s still keeping me entertained. I get distracted easily. I’m thinking I may fire up my 20-1 furnace to pour some 38-55 bullets. I’m beginning to think my old workhorse 1894 doesn’t like the scavenged wheel weight alloy I’ve been feeding it. Good/bad thing is I’m really enjoying my rimfires and they don’t require any time in the room where the magic happens. I’m thinking your SS will probably prefer the good stuff, too. Have you slugged your .405?
Mike
I seem to remember that the bore is .4115″, but I will need to double check it.
The bore in that rifle is still in nearly new condition, and it really likes the Hornady 300-grain factory ammo. I suspect that the total round count is still < 200, as I have shot just 70 rounds through it (for which I have the empties). I will eventually load up those empties with cast bullets as a reduced load (something more comfortable to shoot).
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
March 31, 2009
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steve004 said
Tom –
I found this hilarious as I’ve been guilty of doing the same thing! For me, this is one of the few downsides of being a handloader – getting too obsessive about retrieving empty cases.
With the cost and availability today it is a good idea to hang on to what you have.
September 19, 2014
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Bert, To put a fine point on the matter, the “bore” should be .405, whence the caliber designation derives. The GROOVE diameter might be .4115, and if so you are indeed very fortunate. My original 1895’s are almost always at or near .413 groove diameter which plays hob with the .411 bullets available commercially. Thus I specified a .411 groove diameter on my “new” 1885. Now to cast bullets–I think I will mostly shoot it with my own cast bullets. I have an original Lyman mould that drops a bullet that cleans up in the lubrisizer with a .413 die and shoots impressively in said “new” 1885. However the mould drops a bullet that at best weighs 294 grains, not quite the true 300 grains. You had stated something like at least 300grains with a plus mark.. Wish I could also find such a mould. Bullet weight stays constant, while velocity is always decreasing, and a bare lead bullet doesn’t do well at velocities of or over 1600 fps. I’ve found the 1400 fps range to be nearly ideal in many different calibers. I think both of us will much more enjoy the lead bullets at moderate velocity. Much as if we shot a .40-72!
Mike, I do have to say, you are on point! But casting several hundred really GOOD bullets one at a time gets OLD! Tim
April 15, 2005
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tim tomlinson said
Bert, To put a fine point on the matter, the “bore” should be .405, whence the caliber designation derives. The GROOVE diameter might be .4115, and if so you are indeed very fortunate. My original 1895’s are almost always at or near .413 groove diameter which plays hob with the .411 bullets available commercially. Thus I specified a .411 groove diameter on my “new” 1885. Now to cast bullets–I think I will mostly shoot it with my own cast bullets. I have an original Lyman mould that drops a bullet that cleans up in the lubrisizer with a .413 die and shoots impressively in said “new” 1885. However the mould drops a bullet that at best weighs 294 grains, not quite the true 300 grains. You had stated something like at least 300grains with a plus mark.. Wish I could also find such a mould. Bullet weight stays constant, while velocity is always decreasing, and a bare lead bullet doesn’t do well at velocities of or over 1600 fps. I’ve found the 1400 fps range to be nearly ideal in many different calibers. I think both of us will much more enjoy the lead bullets at moderate velocity. Much as if we shot a .40-72!
Mike, I do have to say, you are on point! But casting several hundred really GOOD bullets one at a time gets OLD! Tim
Tim,
You are correct in that the measured .4115″ is the groove diameter. I was planning on developing a load using hard cast bullets in the 300 – 325 grain range, and in the 1,450 – 1,500 fps range. I may need to rethink the bullet weight.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
November 7, 2015
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Bert-
300 grains sounds reasonable, I’m wondering if Winchester ever made a mould for this bullet. Accurate has a semi-custom mould available but I don’t know if Lyman made one.
Bullet Design Details | Accurate Molds
Mike
April 15, 2005
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TXGunNut said
Bert-
300 grains sounds reasonable, I’m wondering if Winchester ever made a mould for this bullet. Accurate has a semi-custom mould available but I don’t know if Lyman made one.
Bullet Design Details | Accurate Molds
Mike
That looks like the correct mold and bullet for the 405 WCF. Unfortunately, I am not set up to cast bullets of any type. In the past, I have bought the cast bullets from the small companies that specialize in making them.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
November 19, 2006
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Bert H. said
TXGunNut said
Bert-
300 grains sounds reasonable, I’m wondering if Winchester ever made a mould for this bullet. Accurate has a semi-custom mould available but I don’t know if Lyman made one.
Bullet Design Details | Accurate Molds
Mike
That looks like the correct mold and bullet for the 405 WCF. Unfortunately, I am not set up to cast bullets of any type. In the past, I have bought the cast bullets from the small companies that specialize in making them.
Bert
That’s what I have done for the last four+ decades. I don’t regret not getting set up for casting my own. That would probably have added hundreds of pounds (likely more) to what I have here and it would be just too much total stuff to deal with and keep track of. I also have a lot of respect for bullet casting. It’s serious business with a variety of safety issues to stay very alert to. There’s a learning curve and there’s some lessons I don’t want to learn the hard way.
I don’t currently have a .405 and as I think of it, I’ve only owned one in my life. The same can’t be said for the .40/72 and many other .40 caliber rifles.
I have purchased many different bullets from Bear Creek and here’s an interesting .405 bullet they offer:
November 7, 2015
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Bert-
That Bear Creek bullet is pretty impressive. I prefer traditional cast bullets with grease grooves and sharp edges because that’s what I do. If I had been able to find decent bullets awhile back I would have never tried casting. I’m glad I did but it is a hobby unto itself. You don’t need four furnaces, dozens of bullet moulds, ingot moulds, a shelf full of sizing dies, thousands of gas checks, two lubrisizers, a hot plate, a turkey frying outfit for melting scrap lead, ingot moulds, welding gloves and a heavy denim apron to play this game but that’s what it has grown into for me.
I don’t know what Tom’s moulds are going for these days but a few hundred commercial cast bullets would probably cover the cost of a mould and sizing die. That’s the trap; I got into casting for what a few hundred commercial bullets cost me, but none of those bullets worked for me.
Mike
April 15, 2005
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I like the way the people at Bear Creek think “We’ve always felt that a 300-grain bullet was just way too light for that big of case.“.
That 325-grain bullet is exactly the size I was thinking would be great for the 405 WCF.
Thanks for the link to their website.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
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