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August 11, 2015
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All,
I am kind of new to collecting Winchesters but recently got a couple of date of manufacture letters from them. On one of the letters there happens to be a fairly major error on an 1886 rifle. It is inscribed at the factory and they quoted the wrong name as being inscribed. A previously letter for a previous owner that I happened to locate has the correct inscription name. I am sure they will fix the error once I contact them, but just wanted to get some feedback on the accuracy of the information they provide. It is such a significant error that it makes me wonder about any other discrepancies that show up between the actual gun in hand and what the letter states.
Thanks,
They were human so they did make errors in writing it down and if you look at the ledgers you will understand how someone can make a error in reading them at times. I would request a copy of the ledger so you can see what they are looking at. I have seen plenty of guns that look correct but do not letter. Most of the time its a feature not recorded. The ledger we have for this information is just the warehouse record, not the production or order records. It really surprises me that they did take the time to record features of the guns just for inventory control.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
I have a Winchester 1886 that is takedown, and it did not letter as takedown, which baffled me. After a year or two of being baffled, I called the Buffalo Bill Historical Center and they looked into it for me and informed me they had left the fact it was a takedown off the letter. So, the letters themselves can contain errors.
Just as Bob mentioned, the ledger records are not the easiest thing in the world to read and decipher. For those that are not aware, the CFM records office staff uses a digitized copy of the original microfilmed records (from the mid 1970s). The original warehouse ledger books that are stored in a vault (at the opposite end of the museum) are only used when the digital record can not be deciphered.
It is always a good idea to ask for a recheck of the records when something does not match up on a factory letter.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Hello all,
Our crew at the Records Office endeavor to be as accurate as possible when reporting what was recorded in the Winchester warehouse ledgers. However, we do miss some items from time to time. If something is amiss on a search or letter please let us know and we are happy to double check the records. If we did miss something in a search or letter we will send a corrected item out as soon as possible. We do ask that incorrect letters be returned to us (just fold them up and send them back) but please make a note on the letter regarding why it is being returned.
As noted, we are reading 40+ year old microfilm made from 100+ year old handwritten ledgers when doing searches and letters and we use the original ledger books only when absolutely necessary to clear up entries which the microfilm renders illegible. The microfilm is in black and white (or generally gray) and, unfortunately, a number of pages are horribly out of focus. We also have issues with the condition of the microfilm which was digitized. All the scratches from thirty years of use come through on the digitization as well. One other reason we go to the originals is if we suspect that we can make better sense of the chain of events relating to a serial number. The clerks at Winchester used multiple ink colors in the ledgers from time to time and that difference in ink color can help in interpreting the records.
We only share ledger copies with members of the museum unless the record is just near impossible to interpret. If you would like to see what the ledgers are like, email me. I have a couple sample images I can share.
If you do have questions please contact me directly at the Records Office or stop by to see me at a show.
Happy New Year!
Jesi Bennett
Firearms Records Specialist – Cody Firearms Records Office – Buffalo Bill Center of the West
307-578-4031 – [email protected]
Hi Jesi
We appreciate your efforts as we are all interested in all the details we can find ou about our ‘Jewels’ and the service is a luxury
You have read what I saw as totally indecipherable , and corrected the multi optioned letter perfectly.
The deterioration of records is certainly a bit worrisom , and wondering if a possibily would be to re photo the origionals now with new modern technology , so that the origionals can stay in storage for preservation . I realize it may not be easy or cheap, but for long term may pay off for future generations?
Thanks
Phil
Ultimately if the records were transcribed into a data base so you could then enter a serial number and out pops the letter information. You then could survey the records for configurations of guns. The 73 is the model that hasn’t been done yet. Then the next step is to setup a online records check for members that would give you 24/7 access which would be great for guns shows. Now if a you had a gun does not letter correctly you would then have a human do a double check with the printed ledger and then you would note that record in the data base as been verified. The museum would sell that service just like the phone searches. Either so much $$ for a package or so many $$ each .
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
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