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Needing help for 45-90 smokeless load data for 405 and 540 grain cast bullets. I’m shooting a rebarreled 1885 Hi-Wall and particularly interested in 4198 and 3031 info. I have shot BP in it and it shoots well, I’m just interested in trying smokeless too. Thank you,
For IMR 4198, use 40% of the original black powder charge. This has worked in my black powder express double rifles for 30+ years and for my new acquired 50-100-450 model 1886.
November 7, 2015
Online
I haven’t had much luck with smokeless in the cavernous 45-90 case. I have a smokeless load for 45-70 but I haven’t been able to make it work in the 45-90. It involves a rather robust load of Rx7 and as it’s only safe in strong actions I won’t post it because the consensus is someone will try it in a trapdoor. Venturino only lists express loads in his “Shooting Leverguns of the Old West” (he was using an 1886) but I’d be tempted to try 5744, seems to be a good place to start in almost any BP cartridge. I’l be interested in your findings, please keep us posted. My 1874 C. Sharps likes the Lyman 457125 over a very lightly compressed load of Swiss 1 1/2Fg.
Mike
I shoot my 86’s with IMR 3031. My best load is 40grs 3031, cornmeal filler, Remington 300gr JHP, 1450fps. I’ve used 300gr cast at 38grs, 1450fps, when I use 405gr cast it slows to 1330fps and the group get a little bigger. I always use a cornmeal filler, it’s the only way I can keep the velocity constant. I’ve used these loads in a 32″extra heavy, a 26″ extra heavy, a 26′ oct, and a 32″ oct. The extra heavys shot the tightest groups, the 300gr JHP was the best bullet, 1450fps was best speed, and cornmeal filler was a must. T/R
First off the barrel twist rate for the 45-90 cartridge is for a 300 grain bullet. Heavier bullets may not be as stable.
I use 24 grains of 4759 or 31 grains of 4198 and 43 grains of 3031. I use toilet paper to fill the void. Any of these will keep you FPS just over 1500 FPS. I have never tried a jacketed bullet.
For a rougher bore, a jacketed bullet is often just the ticket. For my .45-90, a jacket bullet is the only thing it will shoot (if any degree of accuracy is desired). I have never use fillers.
Folks, From what i get from the OP, his 1885 has been rebarreled. That likely entails a different twist rate as he has already been shooting the heavier than standard bullets with black. What he is looking for are smokeless loads to take over the job. I am not the one to be able to help with personal experience. The few BPCR types that I know that shoot a .45-90 have twist rates for heavy bullets of 500 grains approx, but are using as much black powder as they can get into the case along with a thin wad. Since they don’t use smokeless, I have nothing for advice for the OP. Just hoping to clarify here for someone getting in a little later to see what they might have to help on his quest. Tim
steve004 said
For a rougher bore, a jacketed bullet is often just the ticket. For my .45-90, a jacket bullet is the only thing it will shoot (if any degree of accuracy is desired). I have never use fillers.
I find that finding jacketed bullets in the right diameter can be frustrating. I always slug my barrels and with lead I shoot .001″ over the groove diameter. How do the undersized jacketed bullets shoot?
Chuck said
I find that finding jacketed bullets in the right diameter can be frustrating. I always slug my barrels and with lead I shoot .001″ over the groove diameter. How do the undersized jacketed bullets shoot?
Often, good.
November 7, 2015
Online
Chuck said
I find that finding jacketed bullets in the right diameter can be frustrating. I always slug my barrels and with lead I shoot .001″ over the groove diameter. How do the undersized jacketed bullets shoot?
Some jacketed bullets have a remarkable ability to “bump up” in diameter apparently due to a soft lead core and a flexible jacket.
Mike
I don’t know if it is relevant but the factory smokeless loads were 300 grains, according to the box –
Unless that is the bullet weight???
Sorry I know almost nothing about reloading. I don’t even have a 45-90. Just came across these for sale in a pawn shop and thought they were cool.
November 7, 2015
Online
As I recall (and that’s always risky!) the 45-90 was introduced as an Express load with a light for caliber bullet and a bit of additional powder. Rifles chambered for this load generally had a bit slower twist than the 45-70. Then along came smokeless powder and upset the apple cart. Rifles didn’t need big cases to make bullets go faster, they just needed smokeless powder. IMHO the 45-90 became obsolete with the invention of smokeless powder. The 45-90 was given a new lease on life with the introduction of the Black Powder Cartridge Rifle game. Some shooters saw the 45-90 as an improvement over the 45-70 but the lighter bullets used in the original express loading probably performed poorly when attempting to knock over a ram at over 500 yards. Today’s 45-90 shooter probably uses bullets of at least 400 grains, often over 500, and a barrel with a twist rate more commonly found in the 45-70 than the original “Express” rifles.
As Tim has pointed out, the OP’s rifle has likely been rebarreled and probably will not shoot well with loads that perform well in say, an original 1886 in 45-90. Like the OP, I’ve had good results shooting BP in the 45-90. My C. Sharps 1874 has a real talent for hitting the Whittington Center buffalo at 1123 yards but quite frankly isn’t good for much of anything else. I wish the OP well in his quest for a smokeless load for the 45-90.
Mike
TXGunNut said
As I recall (and that’s always risky!) the 45-90 was introduced as an Express load with a light for caliber bullet and a bit of additional powder. Rifles chambered for this load generally had a bit slower twist than the 45-70. Then along came smokeless powder and upset the apple cart. Rifles didn’t need big cases to make bullets go faster, they just needed smokeless powder. IMHO the 45-90 became obsolete with the invention of smokeless powder. The 45-90 was given a new lease on life with the introduction of the Black Powder Cartridge Rifle game. Some shooters saw the 45-90 as an improvement over the 45-70 but the lighter bullets used in the original express loading probably performed poorly when attempting to knock over a ram at over 500 yards. Today’s 45-90 shooter probably uses bullets of at least 400 grains, often over 500, and a barrel with a twist rate more commonly found in the 45-70 than the original “Express” rifles.As Tim has pointed out, the OP’s rifle has likely been rebarreled and probably will not shoot well with loads that perform well in say, an original 1886 in 45-90. Like the OP, I’ve had good results shooting BP in the 45-90. My C. Sharps 1874 has a real talent for hitting the Whittington Center buffalo at 1123 yards but quite frankly isn’t good for much of anything else. I wish the OP well in his quest for a smokeless load for the 45-90.
Mike
Well said Mike. T/R
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