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…High Standard for a match gun when I had the money, lol. My .22 for Pistol was a lowly Ruger MKI bull barrel but it thought Winchester Wildcat was target ammo and it pulled me and my .45 up a class or two. That’s fortunate, I couldn’t afford match ammo. I shot my Series 70 Colt (customized for IPSC…

…) duty gun and store bought cast bullets for CF and .45 but it would barely hold the black as it had the factory Colt barrel and Series 70 bushing. I slipped into the low end of Expert class IIRC and the experience gave me off season trigger time as well as keeping me sharp with my duty…

…a lot from them. Every now and then I’ll stick my left hand in my pocket and put five in the black @25 with that old Ruger. Nowadays I gotta use target ammo, it doesn’t like Wildcat any more.

Thanks for the memories, Big Larry. Your dad made me think of Billy Taggert. Billy was a Marine team

…High Standard for a match gun when I had the money, lol. My .22 for Pistol was a lowly Ruger MKI bull barrel but it thought Winchester Wildcat was target ammo and it pulled me and my .45 up a class or two. That’s fortunate, I couldn’t afford match ammo. I shot my Series 70 Colt (customized for IPSC…

…) duty gun and store bought cast bullets for CF and .45 but it would barely hold the black as it had the factory Colt barrel and Series 70 bushing. I slipped into the low end of Expert class IIRC and the experience gave me off season trigger time as well as keeping me sharp with my duty…

…a lot from them. Every now and then I’ll stick my left hand in my pocket and put five in the black @25 with that old Ruger. Nowadays I gotta use target ammo, it doesn’t like Wildcat any more.

Thanks for the memories, Big Larry. Your dad made me think of Billy Taggert. Billy was a Marine team

…in the 1980's.Winchester Complete,Volume 1 and Volume 4.Winchester Complete has some nice black and white pictures in it and I like to look at the targets shot with the different Winchester rifles in Volume 4.

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…did make some presentation 52 Targets. Some consisted of rifles with nothing more than fancier wood with a silver presentation plaque to fully engraved examples. Here is a 52D that was…

…one early 52 with upgrades other than checkering and grip cap. It was supposedly engraved by George Ulrich and was more like a cross between a target and Sporter. I am not convinced that it was a Winchester factory original rifle. As mentioned prior, most Winchester upgrades to these rifles

…said

 Some of the M70 Target rifles had fancy wood, did Winchester build a 52 Target with fancy wood? 

Checkering with pistol grip cap were standard options for 52s at moderate cost, but few target shooter were interested.

…wading through Rule’s M70 book and part of the fallout is a listing of “extras” for the M70 and M52 including select walnut and pistol grip cap. Must admit that was a bit distracting as a fancy M70 is regularly encountered while I can’t…

…recall seeing a fancy 52 other than a Sporter. I don’t spend a lot of time looking at either model but a fancy 52 Target would be pretty cool. Some of the M70 Target rifles had fancy wood, did Winchester build a 52 Target with fancy wood?

Mike

…serial number of 1991 as G2037985. Another private source lists the last number being around ~G3010000 when USRA production ended. Later "FN" Model 70s follow the FN/Browning serialization scheme and do not use the GX......series.

MGW suggests calling "Winchester" (Browning) Support at

…items, then the only real difference is the entity for whom those rifles were made.  I would contend there isn't enough difference between Model 70's made in 1979 and 1981 to actually matter.  I own rifles on both sides of that timeline so this is not mere speculation on my part.

As one who…

…owns dozens of Model 70 rifles, both pre and post 64, and both pre and post 1981, I would contend that my Winchester Model 70 rifles made in the 1980's and 1990's are worthy of the name "Winchester" whether the name was owned by USRAC or merely "licensed" to them by Olin.

… reconstruct the sequence/timing of changes in Corporate address, box end label style, tags, manuals, etc. from existing examples.  Too many "NIB" M70s cobbled together using (sometimes real, often fake) boxes/tags/manuals (with "reproduction" end labels), without regard to whether the box is…

…period correct for the contents...

As far as M70 packaging, I have the (probably incorrect) sense that pasteboard boxes were used up into the red W overprinted "WRACo. Division of Olin-Mathieson…

…Chemical" boxes, although that address appears on later corrugated boxes as well.  The change in cardboard seems to have been around M70 S/N 390,000-ish (late 1956 into early 1957).  But I'm probably WAY off base...

I'd love to see those assembly ledgers.  Thanks for pointing

…of information.  I have posted a simple example of the Winchester Model 63 packing information below, the same information exists for the Model 70, I just didn't copy it as there are hundred's of pages and it was not my focus at the time 😉  The more complex packing lists include the stapling of

…Louis Luttrell said

Speaking for myself, the pre-64/post-63 bias of collectors, derives from the fact that the "Model 70" as originally designed in the 1930s ceased to be manufactured in 1963.  Even if the later (1950s-60s) pre-64 Model 70s were a pale imitation of

…... USRA acquired the Winchester plant, name, etc. from Olin Corporation in 1981.  So all the "new" Model 70s from serial number 700,000 through about 1,525,000 (1964-1981) were manufactured under the Olin banner.  It wasn't a change in Corporate ownership that caused people…

…to date Gerald's rifle, unfortunately...

Speaking for myself, the pre-64/post-63 bias of collectors, derives from the fact that the "Model 70" as originally designed in the 1930s ceased to be manufactured in 1963.  Even if the later (1950s-60s) pre-64 Model 70s were a pale imitation of…

…not like, say, the Model 1886/86 versus the Model 71, where the Model number was changed but the design was basically the same. The post-63 "Model 70" was a different product being marketed under the same name...  

Just my take...

Lou

…hollow bolt knob was introduced as part of the Featherweight design, but was eventually applied across all M70 styles.  But there were still a lot of bolts in inventory when they started making Featherweights in 1952 (around S/N 214,000).  Net result was…

…have type III-2 actions (solid bolt knob).  The type III-3 receiver (drilled bolt) on Featherweights doesn't become common until around S/N 270,000.  The change to type III-3 was implemented in standard weight rifles at about the same time, circa S/N 275,000-280,000 for standard bolts (0…

…correct electropencil S/N on it, or it could have been replaced six months ago by a local gunsmith.  We all know there are no R&R records on M70s and that the serial number is based on polishing room records so it only dates receiver manufacture, not rifle manufacture. 

FWIW... A rifle

…said

Bert H. said Your Model 70 is not actually a "Winchester".

Think about that:  USRA guns were manufactured in the same factory, using the same eqpt, with substantially

…to corrugated cardboard in their boxes?  If this is a pre-war (1935-37) box it would suggest it happened pretty early.

I have some M70 boxes (sans guns) from as late a 1956 that are still pasteboard.  So I'm confused... Pic shown is a legit M70 Varmint rifle box from the 393XXX

…H. said Your Model 70 is not actually a "Winchester".

Think about that:  USRA guns were manufactured in the same factory, using the same eqpt, with substantially

…guys, I have a '49 model 70 in 270. It has a drilled bolt handle. To my knowledge the drilled bolt handles came in the featherweights in '52 and beyond. could this be a custom job

…Gerald,

No, I cannot. Your Model 70 is not actually a "Winchester". Instead, it was manufactured by the U.S. Repeating Arms Company using the TM Winchester name. The U.S.R.A.Co

…

I wish you the best of luck in finding all those Pre-64 Model 70 stocks.  They are out there, but it might be quite a wait.  

Just so you know, the .243 rifle with the target barrel might also be a Varmint…

…model, and that stock might be easier to find than the marksman stock.  The metal work on the Varmint and the Target were identical.  I have been looking for an unmodified Marksman stock for YEARS! 

BRP

…for original finish & unmodified:

.220 Swift varmint w/ metal butt plate or Feaatherweight w/ plastic butt plate (1961)

.243 target (Marksman?) stock w/ checkered flat butt plate or a Featherweight w/ plastice butt plate (1960),

.375 H&H stock w/ solid red pad (1954)…

…in Germany back in the early 1960's, he loved the "Schutzen" rifle look and according to the family, had Fuch's in Austria fit all his Model 70's with cheek pieces & buttpads. They are very well done, but to the American Winchester Model 70 collector, not appealing.  I already found an

…around S/N 87,000.  The H&H Magnum receivers were different, with cloverleaf tang receivers appearing into the 120,000s, but not relevant for a 270 Winchester... 

It's possible that it's a leftover transition receiver that wasn't finished/serialized until 1952, but unlikely. The closest I…

…numbered pair of 300 and 375 H&H Magnum Super Grades that were built (by a factory employee) around 1950-52, and the S/Ns on those are 86704 and 86705.  So they were already finished (and serial numbered) receivers that sat around for several years.  It's less likely, but not

…*66 said I know there are always oddities with the Model 70, with some older parts getting pulled from bins long after production changes were made.

Seems the obvious explanation.  I prefer this shape to

…just purchased a custom Pre-64 Model 70 chambered in 270 Winchester.  The barrel and stock are aftermarket, but the action is factory original, except the solid bolt knob has four checkering panels added.…

…in the 180000 range; however, I don't have access to my copy of Rule's book to confirm any of this.  I know there are always oddities with the Model 70, with some older parts getting pulled from bins long after production changes were made.   Do any of you experts have any thoughts on a 1952 Model 70 with a cloverleaf tang? 

The guy who owned the rifle knew little about it, so he clearly wasn't the one who had the custom work done.  He claimed

…the roll marking die.  Before that, the caliber part of the barrel marking was applied with a separate die. 

This happened around serial number 170,000 for both chamberings, albeit with some overlap between the new and old barrel markings.

Yes... If unaltered (not rechambered), the early

…could be wrong about all this. I had thought all early Magnum Model 70 rifles were without the H&H on the barrel. If they don't have H&H, but do say "Magnum", are they still an H&H? I know rifles in the 50

…in OZ. All up around $700AUD

…a Marlin the rest are Winchesters. I bought a bunch of jacketed bullets and maybe a 1000 cast lead. I have turned some solid copper bullets for 45-70 and have thought of making some for the 25-20. Using a CNC lathe you can keep tolerances pretty close. I have so many projects on the burners not

…a few extra .22’s, good thing because my proposed Target Model 75 victim was not only sans sights but also didn’t have the scope bases my overly optimistic brain seemed to recall. Worked out OK, 52C had