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I have been looking for a plain vanilla Model 1886 Sporting Rifle 45-90 in High Condition for several months. Have a few on my consideration list. One in particular is troubling
as all the screws in the receiver appear to be blued and not case colored. So you guys that routinely buy and sell these guns I need you sharp and experienced eyes
on this. Go to http://www.gunbroker.com/Item/629174943 and give the gun a close look and provide your thoughts. Many thanks.
Cheers
Kirk
I like the 86 45-90s myself, purchased my first a few months ago.
It may just be the lighting the 86 was photographed in, however the coloring in the color case hardening looks off to me and seems much too vivid for CCH 117 years old.
And it’s a 45-70 .
Winchester Model 1873 44-40 circa 1886
I don’t recall seeing blued screw heads like that on pristine case coloured 1886’s. A review of some high quality examples on the James Julia website reveals this to be true.
The seller has provided fodder for other threads on this forum in the past and his offerings as presented are nothing short of outright fraud.
Caveat emptor!
A original gun with that much case would have wood to match but it doesn’t. It looks like Turnbull case color.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
November 7, 2015
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In my newbie opinion the metal is in much better condition than the wood and the coloring/pattern of the receiver is very suspicious.
mrcvs said
I don’t recall seeing blued screw heads like that on pristine case coloured 1886’s. A review of some high quality examples on the James Julia website reveals this to be true.The seller has provided fodder for other threads on this forum in the past and his offerings as presented are nothing short of outright fraud.
Caveat emptor!
I didn’t even notice who was selling it, now I’m quite sure the CCH is not original.
Winchester Model 1873 44-40 circa 1886
1873man said
A original gun with that much case would have wood to match but it doesn’t. It looks like Turnbull case color.Bob
Exactly what I was thinking.
Winchester Model 1873 44-40 circa 1886
November 7, 2015
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I think Turnbull (or whoever is doing his CCH these days) does a better job than we’re seeing here. I’ve begun to form an opinion about this seller but I figure he may run across a nice gun someday.
It has the dark hues like you see with Turnbull but he knows that blued screws don’t go into a cased gun.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
1873man said
It has the dark hues like you see with Turnbull but he knows that blued screws don’t go into a cased gun.Bob
You and the other guys beat me to it. I thought about simply replying “TURNBULL” to this post.
Maverick
WACA #8783 - Checkout my Reloading Tool Survey!
https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-research-surveys/winchester-reloading-tool-survey/
November 7, 2015
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Maverick said
You and the other guys beat me to it. I thought about simply replying “TURNBULL” to this post.
Maverick
I think Doug is outsourcing his CCH these days, I couldn’t get a solid denial last time I asked. No biggie, he can’t do it all in house. At any rate his work is very good but this rifle appears to have been heated with a torch, not an oven.
TXGunNut said
I think Doug is outsourcing his CCH these days, I couldn’t get a solid denial last time I asked. No biggie, he can’t do it all in house.
Nothing wrong with that, considering the skill and experience necessary to produce first class CC work. The flawless CC on Stevens & Remington boys’ rifles selling for $5 or less was economical because each had crews of men doing that and only that all day long–“no substitute for experience.”
TXGunNut said
I think Doug is outsourcing his CCH these days, I couldn’t get a solid denial last time I asked. No biggie, he can’t do it all in house. At any rate his work is very good but this rifle appears to have been heated with a torch, not an oven.
I had Turnbull CCH some handle parts for a custom knife design/build a few years ago for my custom knife collection. Turned out pretty nice for comparison. I don’t believe he does many knives.
Winchester Model 1873 44-40 circa 1886
Love this forum! Always gets to the answer sooner of later. Thanks all of you for you timely ,candid and experienced responses.
I never fail to learn from you guys, most whom I know through past forum contacts.
Cheers
Kirk
I see it this way:
The receiver case coloring says “I have never seen the light of day and have certainly never ever been carried by one hand grasping the bottom of the receiver in between the lever and the fore end wood.”
The end of the barrel and the magazine retaining band show a decent amount of ware which then must have been caused by angels perching there and the fluttering wings causing the bluing to become thin.
The wrist of the stock is much darker than the balance of the wood which then can only be explained by the ritualistic anointing of the rifle during the 6th Saturday of the month festivities by the fair maidens who live in the very small town where this rifle has resided out of sight for the past century plus.
And lest this fair rifle be violated by the hand of a man who might actually want to shoot it, the butt plate is absolutely virginal and has never touched the shirted shoulder of a human.
So….. this is either a wonderful gun that some really stupid person ought to spend huge amounts of money to then own or it is an F’ing fake!!! I still can’t make up my mind??!!
Michael
Model 1892 / Model 61 Collector, Research, Valuation
Excellent assessment, Michael!
Speaking of angels: last night I was reading from fellows who lived, pre-Winchester, 2000+ years ago. One of them stated that the “road to Hades is easy to travel,” and the other said the “descent . . . is the same from every place.” Bion of Borysthenes, and Anaxagoras
I think they came up with these lines after seeing a hawker duping Colosseum-goers by selling them ridiculously faked daggers and sheaths.
Funny how the centuries have little effect on the essence of Humanity.
(Not preaching here, not damning. Not even close to that religion.)
All I need to know that it once I saw who is selling it there must be something fake about the gun and didn’t look any further.
"This is the West, sir. When the legend becomes fact, print the legend."
Wincacher said
All I need to know that it once I saw who is selling it there must be something fake about the gun and didn’t look any further.
Judging by the purple prose, his day job must be real estate: “Do not miss out on this opportunity to add this fabulous and rare Winchester Model 1886 45-70 WCF caliber rifle to your collection. These fine Winchesters do not come up for sale very often. Most are already locked away in private collections. Do not miss out on this one!”
But such blatant BS is effective–it’s earned him a A+ rating!
clarence said
Judging by the purple prose, his day job must be real estate: “Do not miss out on this opportunity to add this fabulous and rare Winchester Model 1886 45-70 WCF caliber rifle to your collection. These fine Winchesters do not come up for sale very often. Most are already locked away in private collections. Do not miss out on this one!”
But such blatant BS is effective–it’s earned him a A+ rating!
Good observation. When I checked the seller out last year found out he sells real estate in the areas around Jamestown, CA.
"This is the West, sir. When the legend becomes fact, print the legend."
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