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February 5, 2016
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Have a Model 1886, 45-70 with a Winchester express front sight. It has a Gold bead. I think it is a “Semi-Jack” as it is round but I am not sure. See photos. The Winchester Book gives give the numbers 3,4,6,20,31,37 and 39 as designations but fails to tell you anything about the characteristic of the various designations ( ivory ,gold, large,small bead ETC). Not a big help. 
Has anyone broken the code on this? What is the likely designation of this sight?
Cheers
Kirk
May 2, 2009
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Are you looking in the Madis sight book?
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
November 1, 2013
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37 (semi-jack) & 39 (jack) are Lyman numbers; don’t know how you could tell them apart without seeing them side by side.
February 5, 2016
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Bob- Not the sight book “The Winchester Book” , page 576.
Clarence- Are these numbers for the Gold bead sight?
Cheers
Kirk
November 1, 2013
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Kirk Fitzgerald said
Bob- Not the sight book “The Winchester Book” , page 576.Clarence- Are these numbers for the Gold bead sight?
Cheers
Kirk
Actually a little confusing because some but not all are illustrated in the Lyman catalogs I have. #20 is an ivory bead jack sight, #28, ivory semi-jack. Beads unspecified on the 37 & 39. Then there’s also a #24 jack, #32 semi-jack, beads unspecified. Too much of a good thing, I’m beginning to think.
Diameter of the semi is 3/32″, jack 1/8″.
May 2, 2009
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Clarence,
It looks like you have a Lyman sight. They made them with 1/8, 3/32, 5/64, 1/16 bead diameters in gold, silver, ivory and red. Per the sight book the #20 was called the Full Jack and says ” This was the usual sight for night hunting with a ‘Jack Light’ introduced in the mid 1880’s” I have a Lyman catalog and if yours is a 3/32 diameter bead then you have a #28. #3 is 1/16, #28 is 3/32 semi-jack and #20 is 1/8″ jack.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
February 5, 2016
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Guys, Think this is what I have so far a #20 and #28 are ivory beads #20 being a Jack and #28 being a Half Jack. The rest of the numbers have to do with the size of the bead and not the color.
Cheers
Kirk
November 7, 2015
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Brownells’ site has good illustrations of the current production Marble sights. Not sure how they compare with Winchester’s model designations.
May 2, 2009
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Kirk Fitzgerald said
Guys, Think this is what I have so far a #20 and #28 are ivory beads #20 being a Jack and #28 being a Half Jack. The rest of the numbers have to do with the size of the bead and not the color.Cheers
Kirk
Here is a couple clips from the Lyman catalog. From what I have found the #3 and #20 were patented on Oct. 6 1885, I would presume the #28 was the same date as well so these sights would have been available for the 86 from the beginning of production.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
November 1, 2013
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1873man said
From what I have found the #3 and #20 were patented on Oct. 6 1885, I would presume the #28 was the same date as well so these sights would have been available for the 86 from the beginning of production.
Bob
Bob, That ’85 pat. originally covered only the #3 & #4 sights–it referred specifically to the method of fitting the ivory into the metal, as ivory had of course been used in sights long before. The #20 came along some years later, but it would take a collection of early catalogs to pin down exactly its date of introduction; its listed in the undated, but c. 1900, Lyman catalog, but that’s the oldest one I have.
May 2, 2009
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Clarence,
I got the patent date from a Lyman catalog, it show the #4 as Aug 31 1886
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
November 1, 2013
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1873man said
Clarence,I got the patent date from a Lyman catalog, it show the #4 as Aug 31 1886
Bob
It would be odd that the #4 got ahead of the #3, except that numbers weren’t assigned until several years after production had begun. Originally, #4 was called the “Patent Ivory Front Hunting Sight,” and #3 was “Patent Ivory Bead Front Sight.” This info from the invaluable Lyman Centennial Journal.
May 2, 2009
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clarence said
It would be odd that the #4 got ahead of the #3, except that numbers weren’t assigned until several years after production had begun. Originally, #4 was called the “Patent Ivory Front Hunting Sight,” and #3 was “Patent Ivory Bead Front Sight.” This info from the invaluable Lyman Centennial Journal.
#3 is ahead of #4 according to the patent dates in the catalog. Here is a copy of the sights from the Lyman catalog with the patent dates.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
November 1, 2013
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1873man said
#3 is ahead of #4 according to the patent dates in the catalog. Here is a copy of the sights from the Lyman catalog with the patent dates.
Bob
My mistake–was thinking they were both 1885. (Will see my optometrist as soon as possible!)
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