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This 1886 rifle letters with no mention of the front sight. It supposedly came out of Manhattan (NYC) over 40 years ago by now, and is in 90%+ condition—other than this front sight. I’ve owned it about 35 years now and shot a deer with it once, but haven’t had it out of the safe for at least 25 years now. I never noticed the striking difference between the sight finish and the barrel until I photographed this rifle last week.
I wonder why it was replaced with one with no finish? What would you do about it? Probably best to leave it as is, but what options are there? I don’t see many unless a Lyman front sight with ivory insert and condition miraculously pops up some day.
Thoughts?
Ian,
Unless somebody with expertise on Cody letters knows otherwise, I would assume the front sight on the rifle when originally sold was unremarkable — whatever the default standard sight was when the rifle was made up. Finding one of those in 90% condition might be tough but the task pales in comparison to finding a 90% version of what you’ve got now.
My guess is somebody in line of ownership was a marksman who took care of his rifle but wanted an ivory bead up front more than he was concerned about its appearance. Maybe he had it, maybe it’s what he could find.
The first thing I would do is to see if what you’ve got was available from Winchester when your gun was made. If so, I’d clean the sight up, cold blue it and be unapologetic about it unless and until you can find one in better condition. Real ivory beads don’t grow on trees anymore and are luminous like plastic isn’t. My opinion. I’m more bothered about the contrast in condition than I am of cold blueing a front sight. Particularly if it’s not original to the gun or I can’t prove it.
If it couldn’t have been factory installed, I’d still remediate the sight and use it while keeping an eye out for a factory correct plain blade with condition. With an eye to a future sale.
I confess a weakness for old ivory sights. What I would do would depend on whether I intended to keep the gun or sell it.
My two cents.
Bill
- Bill
WACA # 65205; life member, NRA; member, TGCA; member, TSRA; amateur preservationist
"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.
The sight on Ian’s ELW is a Lyman No. 4 Hunting sight, and it was the standard sight installed by Winchester on the 45-70 Extra Light Weight rifles. I have seen a few hundred of them over the course of my research survey.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Bert H. said
The sight on Ian’s ELW is a Lyman No. 4 Hunting sight, and it was the standard sight installed by Winchester on the 45-70 Extra Light Weight rifles. I have seen a few hundred of them over the course of my research survey.Bert
I suspected this sight was standard and what would have been on it originally. I’m surprised it’s not like the condition of the rest of the rifle and not original to the rifle, so I’m surprised it was changed to begin with.
I bought this rifle from a gun dealer friend back when money was real tight and I knew about this rifle long before I bought it, it having been on display for many years. Having come from in an apartment in Manhattan, where I believe it had been since WWII, it wasn’t used much.
i never noticed it until now, and had I noticed it at the time of purchase, it wouldn’t have changed my desire for it nor the price I paid for it.
The Lyman no4 front hunting also come in two different sizes. The ones for the 86 ELW are smaller and made for a ramp style front base. The larger one is made for the front dovetail style. I found out when I ordered one a few years back for a dovetail octagon barrel model 1894 but, when it arrived it was the smaller version for a ramp style front sight. Just fyi
Rick C
Rick C said
The Lyman no4 front hunting also come in two different sizes. The ones for the 86 ELW are smaller and made for a ramp style front base. The larger one is made for the front dovetail style. I found out when I ordered one a few years back for a dovetail octagon barrel model 1894 but, when it arrived it was the smaller version for a ramp style front sight. Just fyi
There were more than two sizes/heights for the Lyman No. 4 sight. The sights were a different height depending on the specific caliber (e.g. 33 WCF versus 45-70, or 45-90).
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
My bad Bert, I should’ve been more specific. I meant the overall size, not the height. The smaller one is like a three-quarter version of the other one, and made for the ramp style front.
Rick C
Bert H. said
The sight on Ian’s ELW is a Lyman No. 4 Hunting sight, and it was the standard sight installed by Winchester on the 45-70 Extra Light Weight rifles. I have seen a few hundred of them over the course of my research survey.Bert
So, Bert, Ian’s front sight being correct for the gun but probably not original to the gun, given it’s condition, would you blue it or leave it alone?
- Bill
WACA # 65205; life member, NRA; member, TGCA; member, TSRA; amateur preservationist
"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.
Zebulon said
Bert H. said
The sight on Ian’s ELW is a Lyman No. 4 Hunting sight, and it was the standard sight installed by Winchester on the 45-70 Extra Light Weight rifles. I have seen a few hundred of them over the course of my research survey.
Bert
So, Bert, Ian’s front sight being correct for the gun but probably not original to the gun, given it’s condition, would you blue it or leave it alone?
Bill,
I would first attempt to find one in better condition and replace it. As for the sight now on it, undoubtedly somebody out there has a rifle that needs that same sight in a “lesser” condition.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Ian
Rick was correct in that there were a smaller over all size for the EL hunting sight as opposed to the standard rifle barrels without ramps, they are narrow, so they don’t hang over the edges of the ramp.
I have no idea why these photos are turned sideways and I’ve tried four different times to edit them when attaching them straight, but no luck. Anyway, I don’t have the bigger Lyman no4 now to compare but I think this is the smaller one for a 86 ELW beside a standard Winchester german silver blade front sight. You can see difference.
Rick C
Rick C said
I have no idea why these photos are turned sideways and I’ve tried four different times to edit them when attaching them straight, but no luck. Anyway, I don’t have the bigger Lyman no4 to compare but here’s the smaller one for a 86 ELW beside a standard Winchester german silver blade front sight. You can see difference.
Compare the one I posted to the one Ian posted, his hangs over the ramp more the the one I posted
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