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September 21, 2016
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I’m looking at buying a large collection of guns. Mostly Winchesters. One area that I’m in the dark on is shotguns.
One of the guns is a model 97 12 gauge. I can get the serial number in full tomorrow when I go back to the location it resides. It is an E series/variation.
The condition appears to be fairly high and seems to be original after my first inspection…
But the barrel is only about 20” (I’ll measure it tomorrow as well).
My concern is if the barrel has been chopped or if it is correct, and how I might determine one from the other.
December 31, 2012
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Joel Goodrich said
I’m looking at buying a large collection of guns. Mostly Winchesters. One area that I’m in the dark on is shotguns.One of the guns is a model 97 12 gauge. I can get the serial number in full tomorrow when I go back to the location it resides. It is an E series/variation.
The condition appears to be fairly high and seems to be original after my first inspection…
But the barrel is only about 20” (I’ll measure it tomorrow as well).
My concern is if the barrel has been chopped or if it is correct, and how I might determine one from the other.
20″ is standard for the riot and trenchguns. The bbl. should be marked CYL. Get more info. Big Larry
September 21, 2016
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Thank you Larry,
I will confirm that it is cylinder bore.
It doesnt have a shroud and bayonet lug? like the 97 trench guns I’ve seen on the web. Are the riot guns simply a typical model 97 with a 20” barrel?
April 15, 2005
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Joel,
A commercial Riot Gun is identical to a Field grade gun except for the 20-inch CYL marked barrel. Standard Model 97 Field grade guns were made with a 30-inch barrel, and typically with a FULL choke marked barrel. Optional barrel lengths were 26, 28, and 32 inch, and optional choke was MOD. If you suspect a chopped barrel, measure the distance from the muzzle face to the center of the front sight bead. If it is not exactly .50″ (1/2″), it is a cut down barrel.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
September 21, 2016
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Bert,
That’s exactly the info I had hoped to hear!
I’ll report back with my findings tomorrow.
Thanks!
Joel
September 21, 2016
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The barrel measured 20” and the distance from the center of the front sight bead to the muzzle face is exactly .50”.
Its very clean overall and I believe I’ll bring it home with me in the next wave of purchases.
Once I have it, I’ll post pics. Hopefully I get into it for an appropriate amount!
Thanks again!
December 31, 2012
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Joel Goodrich said
The barrel measured 20” and the distance from the center of the front sight bead to the muzzle face is exactly .50”.Its very clean overall and I believe I’ll bring it home with me in the next wave of purchases.
Once I have it, I’ll post pics. Hopefully I get into it for an appropriate amount!
Thanks again!
What is the asking price? That is important too. Big Larry
September 21, 2016
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Big Larry,
It’ll be bought with other guns but I’m going to say the price will be about $600-$700…
Thoughts?
December 31, 2012
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Joel Goodrich said
Big Larry,It’ll be bought with other guns but I’m going to say the price will be about $600-$700…
Thoughts?
If it is really nice, your are getting a bargain. Usually these guns sans US markings do not bring much $$$. I am no longer up on these. Big Larry
September 21, 2016
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This one is Not “US” marked.
Should it be?
December 31, 2012
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Joel Goodrich said
This one is Not “US” marked.Should it b
Joel Goodrich said
This one is Not “US” marked.Should it be?
In a word, NO. Many police units used these guns and many just simply did not get used. I have seen beaters and minty examples. A lot have PD markings. Big Larry
April 15, 2005
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Joel Goodrich said
This one is Not “US” marked.Should it be?
What is the serial number? Only the WW II production Riot Guns were “U.S.” marked on the receiver (left side).
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
September 21, 2016
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The serial number is 989657.
It isn’t marked US and the slide bar is also unmarked.
There was a prison in Windsor, Vermont (that closed about a year ago) where this gun and a Winchester model 12 were said to have come from. I handled the model 12 and believe it was prison marked but the seller said he refinished it; so I didn’t look it over very closely, as I wasn’t interested.
I will post pics when I can!
Thanks
April 15, 2005
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Joel,
I have several other Rot Guns listed in the same serial number range in my research survey. This particular Riot Gun was manufactured in January 1950.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
December 31, 2012
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Sounds about right for a civilian prison gun. They did not mark them all, and many went unused. My 1943 Trenchgun has JPD 6 in small letters stamped into the pistol grip. If you didn’t look for them, you might not see them. I wish I knew what the initials stood for. Big Larry
September 21, 2016
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Thank you gentleman!
A bit off topic, but he also has a 75 target rifle that is stamped “A4” in the side of the buttstock and “PP” in the pistol grip.
December 31, 2012
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Joel Goodrich said
Thank you gentleman!A bit off topic, but he also has a 75 target rifle that is stamped “A4” in the side of the buttstock and “PP” in the pistol grip.
US Property M75. Is it parkerized or blued? More than likely has a 93A front sight and a M57 rear. These cartouches were stamped during the rework process. Serial number from 1941-1942. Big Larry
September 21, 2016
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Big Larry said
US Property M75. Is it parkerized or blued? More than likely has a 93A front sight and a M57 rear. These cartouches were stamped during the rework process. Serial number from 1941-1942. Big Larry
It has been parkerized. I didn’t notice any other cartouches or stamps but I’ll give it a closer inspection next time I’m there. It’s serial number is 12997. I believe you’re correct on the sights but I’ll confirm that as well. It’s very, very clean overall and can be bought for around $400 so I plan to buy it as I think that seems to be a fair price.
September 21, 2016
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Bert H. said
Joel,
I have several other Rot Guns listed in the same serial number range in my research survey. This particular Riot Gun was manufactured in January 1950.
Bert
Thank you for the info and specific date Bert!
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