The perils of shopping for a Model 21|Winchester Shotguns|Forum|Winchester Collector

The Model 21 seems to occupy its own unique space in the Winchester collecting World, the more I study it. 

I think the overwhelming number of these guns are bought to use. The late Ned Schwing, whose opinion actually counted for something because of the depth of his expertise and experience, thought so too. 

The Model 21 line has had no impact on American history and the only aspect of the history or culture of Winchester Repeating Arms these guns epitomize is how good a gun designer Frank Burton could be when money was no object. And what the senior New Haven craftsmen could do when “best quality regardless of cost” was the order. John Olin was justifiably proud of the gun and within the factory he was a very powerful man. I would be surprised to see a Production Era gun showing evidence it had been carelessly made. 

There really aren’t that many of them to collect.  Even if you throw in however many CSC makes to order in a year — at a guess, one or two? There seem to be enough to satisfy the market for them. 

Why buy a brand new one? CSC is very much in the business of restoring and then reselling the Model 21 and – because they have all the parts to make new ones – they can take in a worn sow’s ear and make a silk purse that will make you stop and look. Their online catalog of used and reworked guns is impressive. 

I used to think Galazan’s used Model 21 offerings were overpriced. That was before I understood how parts and labor for fixing one can very quickly run into thousands of dollars. Even the oldest Model 21 CSC sells comes with a handsome warranty. 

I have the impression a lot of people would like to have one — ONE. That may be my ignorance talking. 

Agreed, Bo.  And you have the “most American” style of the Model,  one our forefathers would choose for their “ducking” expeditions.  I still like a good double trigger gun myself. 

My limited understanding of John M. Olin and his brother Spencer was they were waterfowlers first, last and always. These men could afford the best and wanted the strongest. The endurance comparisons the 21 was put through alongside London Best guns still impresses every time I read about them. 

No doll’s heads, no Kersten side clips. A real feat of engineering. 

Mike, It is not difficult for a gunsmith skilled at stock alterations to create cast on or off by subtly changing the angle at which the head of the stock meets the action rear face of the receiver.  Especially if the stock can be effectively shortened a fraction of an inch by letting the tangs and action rear face of the receiver slightly deeper into the inletting. If he’s really good, no refinishing or just an invisible touch of spot refinishing is necessary. 

It isn’t necessary to bend the wrist with hot oil to change the cast, although that is another method. 

“When in doubt, do without.” If there’s one thing I’ve learned from my recent foraging in the Model 21 marketplace, it is that the Model 21 is not rare. 

Even though production was only around 30,000,  most seem to have survived and many have been professionally restored to “as new.”  If you want one, you can have one. If you want a sub-gauge you can have one of those but it will cost you disproportionately. 

Unlike the post WWII years, the Model 21 has lots of competition from excellent, new Euro side-by-sides, once you get into the price range of a nice but used Model 21. Beretta and Merkel, for certain, and their twenty bores don’t cost more than their twelves. And the over/under long ago won the American popularity race. Beretta and Browning will knock your eyes out for three grand, much less five. 

The Model 21 market mostly serves older Winchester enthusiasts for whom nothing else will do, a diminishing herd. As you have noted, prices have softened for twelve gauge guns, the bulk of production. 

I’m happy with my Skeet grade but, as you’ve witnessed, a 7 pound fixed breech twelve gauge needs twenty gauge equivalent loads to be tolerable for an old guy like me. That 1350 fs stuff tears up my hands in a light non-auto gun. 

I’m not a competitive game shooter so finding a factory load would be preferable to hand loading shells. I’ve laid in some Winchester 1 oz 1080 fs loads to try that will probably work.

I don’t relate to velocity labeling and wish they’d also list the dram equivalent that better discloses power on both ends. The stuff I’ve just bought translates to 2.75 dram equivalents. A one ounce 20 gauge load at 2.75 DE is a “high base field load” to old timers. A 7/8 ounce, 2.5 DE is a “low base” twenty gauge load. 

The stuff the tore my hands up was a 1 ounce, 1350 fs load that translates to 3.25 DE. In a 7.5 pound gun, it generates 17.5 foot pounds of recoil, seemingly not a huge amount but I cant seem to grip the gun tightly enough to keep it from breaking my grip. 

My late classmate and lifelong hunting/shooting/camping partner used to put up 7/8 Oz loads for his twelve gauge 870 that patterned beautifully at 30 yards. Deadly on doves and you could shoot them all day. Muzzle blast was a “thump” and recoil was just a “bump.” 

I’m pretty sure I-35EN would peg my fun meter.

By the time I got back on it Southbound, I would first want beautiful Japanese maidens to wrap my head in a Kamakazi scarf and wave sayonara tearfully. 

We did have a foreign tourist who rented a Dodge minivan some years ago. He had gotten a little white line fever on a West Texas Interstate and decided to rest. He engaged  the cruise control and crawled into the rear area for a nap. The van made it for an amazing number of miles before the road curved. He survived although pretty beaten up. The van was not so lucky. He had paid extra to waive the deductible and came away financially intact, sadder but wiser. I believe he became a Legend in his Own Time in that sector of the Department of Public Safety.