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Any one else see a couple red flags?
Winchester Model 12 12Ga Blue 20″ 930658 – Pump Action Shotguns at GunBroker.com : 1041080810
Erin Grivicich said
Any one else see a couple red flags?
Winchester Model 12 12Ga Blue 20″ 930658 – Pump Action Shotguns at GunBroker.com : 1041080810
Possible reblue. No cartouche, and a real crappy job on the handguard. Sling is aftermarket. Not worth$10,000. Not even close. I hope no one bites on this gun. Big Larry
Rcvr blue doesn’t look right to me either, unless factory was taking shortcuts for wartime production; very poor polishing job on rcvr. Skeptical original box for gun built in ’42 would have survived.
But even if the gun is A-OK, how can it possibly be worth $12,000?
clarence said
Rcvr blue doesn’t look right to me either, unless factory was taking shortcuts for wartime production; very poor polishing job on rcvr. Skeptical original box for gun built in ’42 would have survived.But even if the gun is A-OK, how can it possibly be worth $12,000?
I am not sure how the M12 and M97’s fair as far as values go. The factory parked M12’s in mint condition may bring $12,000, as they are as scarce as hens teeth, but then an early WB cartouched M97 with a 6 row handguard in mint condition, may top that. Not to get into M1897’s, but they are quite more valuable than either when minty. Those are very few and far between. Especially when US marked. I know that most all trenchguns will bring big $$$ if correct. I have had them all with the exception of the M10 Remington. This was back several years. Big Larry
November 7, 2015
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Box was only red flag I needed, Erin.
Mike
Sometimes it just gets really depressing looking at all the made over fake crap on the market people try to pass off as “original” high dollar merchandise.
Here is another example I called out to the seller on. He did admit he “should” of added the discrepancy to the description and would rectify it. The toe on the butt stock did not look correct.
Thanks for the input guys!
Erin
Erin Grivicich said
Sometimes it just gets really depressing looking at all the made over fake crap on the market people try to pass off as “original” high dollar merchandise.
Don’t be depressed: fakery wouldn’t flourish if there weren’t so many fat-cats with more money than brains. Nobody fakes good, clean, average guns.
Online
It’s a total fake. Besides all the issues already mentioned, it still has the takedown lever which trench guns do not have, the rear sling swivel is incorrect, the US and Ordnance bomb on the receiver look fake and out of line, and I think it may be a late 1941 gun. I don’t believe there was a Winchester government contract for the Model 12 until later in 1942.
By the way Larry, I’ve seen original high condition Model 12 trench guns sell in the last few years for $15,000 – $20,000, with the factory parkerized ones bringing some of the highest prices.
Tom D said
It’s a total fake. Besides all the issues already mentioned, it still has the takedown lever which trench guns do not have, the rear sling swivel is incorrect, the US and Ordnance bomb on the receiver look fake and out of line, and I think it may be a late 1941 gun. I don’t believe there was a Winchester government contract for the Model 12 until later in 1942.By the way Larry, I’ve seen original high condition Model 12 trench guns sell in the last few years for $15,000 – $20,000, with the factory parkerized ones bringing some of the highest prices.
Like I stated. With the exception of the M10’s, I had them all. Sold all too early. Most were 100% new. The most I ever got was $17,500 for a very nice Ithaca M37 WW2 Trenchgun and like the idiot I am, sold a drippy mint M1897, US marked, for $13,500. Nicest one Eric Archer ever seen. I still have a 99% WW2 Winchester M97 Trenchgun I am saving for my Grandson. I just got a bug to sell all my US martial arms. I had many, and most were 100%. All gone too soon. Big Larry
November 7, 2015
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Erin Grivicich said
Sometimes it just gets really depressing looking at all the made over fake crap on the market people try to pass off as “original” high dollar merchandise.Here is another example I called out to the seller on. He did admit he “should” of added the discrepancy to the description and would rectify it. The toe on the butt stock did not look correct.
Thanks for the input guys!
Erin
Erin-
Good eye, he corrected the barrel length as well. I’m not sure we’re seeing the original butt stock on this M12 but that shouldn’t surprise me on a Trap or Skeet gun.
Mike
Had the gun sold without the problems being disclosed, there would have been a very unhappy purchaser. I’m sure this will drag the bids down. I was looking for a “new” grouse gun for my son’s birthday (May 2nd). He always wants to use my model 12 riot but that’s my grouse gun ;<) An 1 1/2 oz. of 7.5’s out of a cylinder barrel is devastating out to 35-40 yards. I was thinking a model 12 with a skeet choke and 26″ barrel might be the ticket and that led to the resulting search. I settled for a mixed bag, I know the second barrel set is aftermarket vent rib but in one of the pics on the skeet barrel it appears to be an offset proof mark alongside the rib. I asked for additional photo’s but evidently too late for a reply before the auction ended. At the price I paid for a “shooter” it would be an added bonus if it works out that way. Any way I hope this brings a smile to his face on the 2nd. I will give it a new red rubber “Winchester” repro pad on the butt stock.
November 7, 2015
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Erin-
Couldn’t get that last link to come up. I think someone got a nice enough deal on that Skeet Gun with the broken toe.
Mike
Mike,
Here is the item #, see if it gets you there. 1046268473 If you go to Gunbroker and type it in it should work or a copy and paste.
The broken toe skeet still has a day to go, the bid stands at $575
Best,
Erin
November 7, 2015
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Erin-
As you may know I passed on a M12 Skeet in 20 a few years back, bought the Browning Citori XS 20ga in the rack beside it. Should have bought both but the Model 12 didn’t seem quite right. I have plenty of shooters, and the first Skeet M12 would be a good one. I think I’ll shoot a round of Skeet with a 1300 Riot gun and another with that Citori tomorrow. The Browning is one sweet Skeet gun and that Riot gun is very quick on the first shot, I need to work on doubles. I’ll call it Beauty and the Beast. The Citori is a better gun for me but I’ll always want another shot at a 20 ga M12 Skeet. I have a long history with a 1300 Riot gun; training, duty and a bit of competition. That’s why I like the Model 12. Please don’t tell me if you find a nice M12 Skeet in 20, I’m embarrassingly broke right now, lol.
Mike
November 7, 2015
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Erin Grivicich said
Mike,Some of these guys will do lay aways………;<)
I suppose they do. Truth is I just don’t feel like buying anything right now. I’m actually trying to thin the herd a bit. I’m retiring at the end of this month and I’m still working on a few details.
Mike
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