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Ok, since it seems to be the topic of the day, and I’ve been watching a particular Model 12 Trench gun, what do y’all think of this one? The seller acknowledges replacement buttstock (no cartouches) but what about the rest?
- SN: 1010654
- 2 3/4″ 12 gauge shells, circa 1946. (Seller states 1946, WACA lookup shows 1943)
- 20 3/4″ cylinder choke barrel
- 7/8 length tube magazine
- Military markings: on the top of the barrel – [flaming bomb] & on the right side of the receiver “U.S.” & [flaming bomb].
I just got Canfield’s book, and am studying it diligently, but don’t have a lot of experience with trench guns. A buddy of mine just sold me a Stevens Riot Gun he found while cleaning out his girlfriend’s mom’s estate so I guess my interest in such things has been piqued. I’d love to have a Winchester.
Thanks,
Steve
WACA Member. CFM Member. NRA Lifer.
Besides a replace stock, it’s been refinished (parkerized). The original finish would have been blued. It also has the wrong heat shield on it. The original heat shield would have been blued and would of had only 4 rows of cooling holes rather than 6 rows of cooling holes.
It does not look parkerized to me, but then again? The heat shield appears to be parked with too many rows of holes. Appears to be made up of parts. I would not touch this one with a 10′ pole. Big Larry
Thanks guys. It didn’t look parkerized to me either and I confirmed its blued. But indeed a parts gun it seems. Thanks for confirming that if something looks too good to be true it probably is!
Cheers,
Steve
WACA Member. CFM Member. NRA Lifer.
Yeah, the photos threw me off on the finish. But even if it’s blued, the heat shield and stock are still wrong.
Nice, ORIGINAL, trenchguns are very hard to find. Most have been pieced together. Even at that, original parts are very hard to find and very expensive. Years ago, when these guns were readily available, I collected them. Even then, a 100% gun was near impossible to find. Seems like most were missing their hand guards. Others were missing their cartouches or someone had done a poor job of making a die and stamped new cartouches. Always detectable to the trained eye. I sold all mine a few years ago. I made a mint selling them off too. I have one left in my meager US military collection. I do not collect these, but this one I could not pass up. Someday, I may use it to trade for a real nice Winchester M1892. I also have all the accouterments for it. Bayonet, shell pouch, and original WW2 brass and paper 00 buck. It is not for sale, but maybe someone will pop up with a M1892 trade. It is a “43” vintage gun, and it is drippy mint. Big Larry
November 7, 2015
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I’d like to add a decent trench gun to my collection some day, would be happy with either an 1897 or a 1912. Seems all I run across are fakes or suspect. Saw one at a club show last spring that could be correct, just need to do my homework before I (hopefully) see it again this spring.
TXGunNut, Did you see the one currently on gun broker?
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/737182557
Not mine, but thought I’d point it out.
Al
Yea, thanks Al. I’ve been following that other thread on the 97.
Steve
WACA Member. CFM Member. NRA Lifer.
Hard to evaluate a gun not in hand. It does appear to be correct but I didn’t catch the serial number. It has the earlier WB cartouche and the US with no bomb on the receiver. I could not tell how many rows of holes the handguard has, but I think maybe it should have 6, but it depends on when it was made.
The bidding is getting a little serious so maybe it is a righteous gun. Check it against any of Bruce Canfields books. He is the GUHRU of US Martial Arms.
You never mentioned what you are willing to spend on one? Got any M1892’s? I will trade for a super nice one, but it has the be a 44-40. Big Larry
Thanks Larry.
As I mentioned, I’m new to trench guns (just got Canfield’s book a couple f days ago) and and only became interested when researching a Sevens 530-30 riot gun that I came into by chance (not a Winchester, but a Browning design!).
A nice M1892 is on my list as well. I’d be happy to have a clean shooter to start. My collection isn’t as mature as some of yours and, besides a couple of gems, I’m only really starting to become more discerning as I learn more from all of you so generous in sharing your knowledge.
Steve
WACA Member. CFM Member. NRA Lifer.
November 7, 2015
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tionesta1 said
TXGunNut, Did you see the one currently on gun broker?https://www.gunbroker.com/item/737182557
Not mine, but thought I’d point it out.
Al
Yes, I see it’s had a few bids since yesterday. Could get interesting. I’m not actively looking for one right now but it’s good to know what to look for. Thanks.
Mike
Big Larry said
Hard to evaluate a gun not in hand. It does appear to be correct but I didn’t catch the serial number. It has the earlier WB cartouche and the US with no bomb on the receiver. I could not tell how many rows of holes the handguard has, but I think maybe it should have 6, but it depends on when it was made.
Larry, the seller says it’s in the 933,xxx range. It does have a heat shield with 6 rows of cooling holes. The markings (i.e., WB marked stock, US only on receiver) would be correct for that serial number range.
Yes, I believe it is correct for what I can see. Over the past years I have had them all. The only trenchgun I never was able to find was a M10 Remington.
I did have a beautiful and elusive M37 WW2 Ithaca the rarest of them all.I sold that puppy for $17,500. I also had all the riot guns in various styles to include a drippy mint early M97 with the open flame bomb, factory swivels, and a very sharp WB with the large ord. wheel cartouche. All gone now. Sold them and started collecting other stuff. Now I collect S&W’s and Winchesters, mostly 22’s. I have, like they say, been there and done that. I am retired now, so $$$ is a little harder to come by. Thanks, Big Larry
November 7, 2015
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tionesta1 said
TXGunNut, Did you see the one currently on gun broker?https://www.gunbroker.com/item/737182557
Not mine, but thought I’d point it out.
Al
Looks like a bit of a bidding war going on. More than I thought it would go for, ten minutes to go!
Online
Mike,
It went for slightly less than I thought it would.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
November 7, 2015
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Apparently at least two other people agree with you so obviously I was wrong, Bert. When the bidding was around $3K I figured that’s about what it was worth. Interesting!
Not bad. The market was up when I sold all mine. I did really good and made a lot of $$$. I don’t miss them, just part of my life. The one I have now appears to be unfired, but if it has, it’s hard to tell. Redbook value on mine is over $8,000. I would not take the $$$, but I would trade it for a M1892 deluxe in 44-40 in average condition. All the accouterments would go with it. Big Larry
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