Grand American|Page 2|Winchester Shotguns|Forum|Winchester Collector

Tedk said
No way to prove if this is a factory engraved  Buffalo Newton Rifle, but I like to think it might be. It does feature an enhanced checkering pattern. Lawrence Wales indicated that it’s an interesting gun

  

Although this rifle was made in Buffalo technically it is not a Buffalo Newton.  It is a Model 1916, the first Model that has been engraved.  The true Buffalo Newtons came along later and had opposing double set triggers not one right behind the other. Larry Wales is a well known Newton author and expert.  He is also a WACA member and 1892 collector.

The “hawks bill” is Teutonic in origin, I believe.  I certainly agree it is the best way to finish off a slender forearm bolt action rifle or a Savage 99, enhancing the sleekness of line. 

Maybe somebody can tell me if the Alexander Henry forearm is related. I like that best for a single shot rifle, perhaps because of its historical association with “single loaders.”

Query: is a “1916” the predecessor of the Newton guns built in Bufallo? Or the last of the Newtons made? I had thought Newton was ruined by WWI and 1916 would be late in the game.

Thanks, Bro.

Steve, which is preferrable?  A blonde or a brunette?  You ask an almost impossible question.   I would postulate it depends on your intended purposes.  IF you plan to shoot a lot, most Americans shoot over/unders better than side by sides.  Europeans and English tend to do better with the side by sides.  If you mostly would be buying to collect and admire–your on your own!  My sole opinion tho.  Tim

steve004 said

Zebulon said
This thread pretty much sums up my attitude toward engraved and inlaid rifles and shotguns.
I really like to own and use high grade rifles and shotguns –  colorful Walnut or Maple and extensive panels of checkering, on mechanically excellent and well-finished steel.
Modest amount of well-executed, traditional scroll hand engraving, like that found on a Grade 1 Browning Auto-Five or Superposed,  is o.k.
Anything more than that (I can’t afford it) has to be very intricate and close English rose-and-scroll, so small in scale it requires a glass to fully appreciate, as seen on vintage Holland doubles. Few craftsmen alive today can do it and it is very expensive. It is not garish or overwhelming. It does hold lubrication and protects bluing. It should never be re-finished.
I think inlays and wire are offensive. Period. 
I prefer blued or case colored receivers to “coin finished” (plated) receivers.
Handguns are another matter, for some reason, although I don’t own or aspire to engraved specimens. Unblemished nickel plate I like but not for carry. 
My take, as Lou would say.
  

The engraver for Burgess is long departed:

View post on imgur.com

Bill – is this the kind of engraving you were referring to?  This was done at Lancaster in England when they built this rifle:

View post on imgur.com

  

Steve, close but no cigar. The pattern is right but the scale is overlarge. If I can find an example I’ll return to this thread and post it.

Lou, absolutely beautiful!  They did and do know how to build them “correctly”.  Hope you get it to the range at least on occasion.  2 and 1/2 inch chambers?  Tim

Lou, I obviously don’t know if your brother lives near you, but I would think the both of you should get together some time with a box or three of factory 2 and 1/2 inch loads and shoot the gun just to say you had!  A lot of pigeon guns did not have safeties, but note this one does.  I do not shoot my side by sides nearly as well as my over/unders as try to be too mechanical and careful (I think).  It goes better to just concentrate on the bird and shoot.  The H and H was made to be shot.  Is there a chance of a spring letting go, or a firing pin breaking?  I suppose so but think it unlikely.  The gun was very well made.  Tim

Louis Luttrell said
Hi Zeb-
This isn’t the super fine “rose and scroll” you’re talking about, but it’s what Holland and Holland put on a Royal Hammerless Ejector circa 1919.  I’m not sure of the DOM but it’s from just before or just after World War 1…  Forgive the cell phone snapshots:

The shotgun is a 12 gauge “live bird gun” with 32″ barrels and a checkered wood butt.  Probably choked full/full, but I don’t remember.  My Dad bought it decades go from the owner and had it imported from Europe…
Pretty… But it’s not a Winchester…
Lou
  

Lou,  you are correct that the full-coverage engraving on your brother’s Holland Royal Hammerless Ejector is not what I was talking about, the flowers and vines being thicker and larger in scale. I know so little about the engraver’s art I don’t know how to classify the Royal’s work except to say it was handsomely done and in a scale far more commonly seen than what I had in mind.

As you will recall, the late JTA was largely responsible for reviving the art of gun engraving in America by illustrating the works of then current masters alongside some newcomers, to their benefit. Amber had a very discerning eye and the piece I remembered was one he thought to be remarkable in its complexity and difficulty to render. It was singularly “English” in character; you would never confuse it with anything German (buxom junge madchen offering cornucopias of fruit and sausages),  Italian (horny goat-men frolicking with lightly clad country girls holding wine bottles), or Spanish (geometric moorish art, heavily carved and gilt).

I can’t offer proof but the scale of what I saw was so small as to appear unobtrusive. It was probably expensive enough to cover the cost of an eventual Seeeing Eye Dog for the artist.