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March 25, 2017
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Please excuse me if my post is not in it’s proper place- I just joined and I wish to put a question to anyone who might be able to give me an answer. I have a model 1897 Win. hammer pump 12 ga. shotgun. The serial # are # 811729. The Cody museum says the mfg. year is 1929, but their records only go up to that year. I think the year of mfg for this gun is 1931. It has a 20″ barrel, and the ord stamp just forward of the ejection port ” U.S.” and then the flaming bomb just below that. The barrel has a CYL bore and there is an “E” on the receiver just above the serial #. There is no heat shield -bayonet lug, no sling swivels. There is the number 19 stamped into the receiver rim just above the magazine stop set screw. This gun looks like the real deal to me, and I have seen my share of 97’s. Could this gun have been accepted by the govt and given the ordenance stamp , and then put into the federal prison system? I am wondering if anyone else has seen a shotgun like this, or near this mfg year.
April 15, 2005
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Hello Richard,
I question why the CFM (and who) told you that serial number 811729 was manufactured in the year 1929, and, that the records in their possession only “go up to that year”. Neither of those statements is correct. Serial number “811729” was actually manufactured in July of the year 1926 versus 1929 (or 1931 as you mistakenly believe). Additionally, they have all of the Model 1897/97 serialization records up to the end of production in September of 1957 at serial number 1024701.
You appear to indicate that it is a Take Down Riot Gun, which is the first clue that it is not a Military contract gun. The ordnance stamp is extremely likely to be a faked marking… unless it is a solid frame and the serial number is actually “611729”, which would make it a Pre-WW I era gun, but possible to not have been assembled and sold until WW I. That stated, the lack of sling swivels is also a clue that it was not a military purchased gun. My bet is that a purposefully deceitful person made the gun up with the sole intent to defraud a future buyer and make a large profit on it. Sorry the news is so grim.
Bert
WACA Historian
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
March 25, 2017
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Hello Bert, Thank you for your valuable input. I am so sorry to have overlooked that major bit of info that the shotgun is a solid frame unit. The serial # is 811729. I have only one question left. Do you have any knowledge of how weapons like this were introduced into the federal prison system? Would they have been amongst those weapons accepted by the fed ord. dept. ? Thanks again Bert, Rick
April 15, 2005
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Rick,
I do not know the answer to your question. Thus far, I have not uncovered any documentation to support the Springfield Armory accepting any firearms for Federal Prisons, but it can not be ruled out as a possibility. If you could post a clear picture of the ordnance marking, it could reveal clues.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
March 25, 2017
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Bert, I sent some pictures to the WACA web site, I don’t know if you will be able to find them, but, let me know and I’ll try again. If I had your email address, I could attach them to an email and I could send several more. —Rick
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