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April 3, 2016 - 2:06 am
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I started handloading for a Model 1895 Takedown Rifle again during our current spring break-up period.  I had posted a few things about the rifle last year; it went through the polishing room in July of 1910 and is chambered in 30 US/30 Army/30-40 Krag.  It has the standard 28″ barrel and a Lyman front and a Lyman 21 Receiver Sight.  I carried it during every day of our 2015  deer season, but did not have an opportunity to fire a shot.  I did see some deer; none very large however and there were still some black bears walking around.  Overall the rifle was more comfortable to carry everyday than I had expected it to be.

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Last fall I was content with what I had loaded using the 220 grain Hornady RN bullet and trying to be at period muzzle velocity of approximately 2,000 fps for the cartridge.   I noticed that a few of my handloads did not chamber easily during season however.  Reloading manuals often advise full-length resizing for hunting cartridges that are going to be used in lever-actions, and now I understand why.

I referred to Ken Waters’ Pet Loads articles on the 30-40 quite a bit over the winter.  If you own a Model 1895 chambered in 30-40 those articles can make your chest swell with pride. I wondered why the Sierra 220 RN that worked well for him in both articles was not working for me.  I eventually developed an accurate load after making a few changes to my methods and following the load data published in his book in conjunction with my Sierra and Hornady manuals. I automatically had been trying to neck-size or partial re-size for every rifle with the expectation that I would have a case that better fit my rifle’s chamber and I would also save on working the brass.   By full-length resizing for this particular rifle, something Waters mentioned, I found that accuracy improved slightly and my fired cases looked a little better.  I also adopted his recommended overall cartridge length of 3.04” and had cartridges that functioned very smoothly.   I have been stubborn about using H4831 in order to trim down my powder selection for the rifles I shoot frequently.  I suppose there very well could be another powder that would perform as well or better that I haven’t tried.  Overall these changes appear to have helped quite a bit, and it was not difficult to measure 2,000 fps loads at 15′ and stay below the max loads published in any of these manuals.  I’m interested to know what a few of the forum members here may have noticed with these rifles or the cartridge.

I kept notes from last year, and comparing them to this year, it became obvious to me that my best groups usually happened at shots 1-6, regardless of powder and even when I tried 180 grain bullets and factory ammo.  Groups also improved by waiting several minutes between shots, but eventually vertical stringing always developed after continued shooting.  The first three or four shots seem to do the best, so I spent several days just keeping careful track of those shots in particular.  I think that there are a few factors that are causing this: the shooter himself and barrel heating for starters.  I know people that report great accuracy with takedown rifles.  I need more personal experience with that subject to decide if that is always the case for me.  The takedown joint on this rifle is very tight.  It is a hunting rifle, not a target rifle, and I thank a friend for pulling me out of paralysis by analysis, reminding me that for a 100+ year old hunting rifle, three shot groups that are 1 -2”  at 100 yards are just fine with iron sights.  Water jugs set up at 175 yards followed yesterday.  After a warm-up shot I drilled one, and it was satisfying to see it get blown off the old planks I had it set upon.  A visiting brother wanted to try and he hit one too, then me again, and after missing with a couple more bullets slightly low we realized the rifle was probably sighted in for about 150 yards with the Hornady bullet.  A later check in the ballistics tables in the back of the Sierra and Hornady manuals seemed to match those results.

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Above are some fired cases and a loaded case after full-length resize.  The new cases were under trim-to length a bit to start.  I recovered the bullet from my hardwood backstop and it weighed 204 grains.  It reminds me of the picture of the 30-40-220 soft-point bullets from the old Winchester catalogs.  When Winchester was loading 30 WCF in the 1890s and early 1900s using a 160 grain bullet (changed to 170 grains in 1903), they were also loading a bullet that was 60 grains heavier for the 30-40-220, and at a very similar velocity.  The published trajectory was very similar or even flatter than the 30 WCF out to 300 yards as well.  I enjoy the 30WCF rifles a lot too, and for me the 1894 30 WCF rifle is a lot of fun.  Remember when I mentioned trying another powder?  The 1899 Winchester catalog page below shows a charge of 36 grains of unknown smokeless powder for the 30 US Army cartridge.  That could be worthy of further study as well and I have added the 30-40 on to the list of the great early smokeless cartridges to learn more about.  The ballistics of WRACo and UMC cartridges for the Model 1895 came from a 1910 Hunter Trader Trapper.  These 1895s are a lot of gun. 

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April 3, 2016 - 11:25 pm
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I did a little reading last night and I was thinking I should try a different powder. Late this afternoon I had some time to load some cartridges with IMR 4064.   I need to do some further research on the the older powders: DuPont 30 Cal., the early DuPont Military and Improved Military Rifle (IMR) powders or Laflin & Rand/Hercules W.A. 30 Cal.  I looked at both my Hornady Third Edition manual and the Lyman 49th Edition since both give data for IMR 4064 with the 220 grain Hornady RN for the 30-40 Krag.  The Hornady manual lists a max load of 36.0 grains of IMR 4064 while the Lyman manual lists a max load of 39.5 grains with the same bullet.  I chose to stay within the Hornady data just to be safe.  My point of impact was a little higher than I thought it would be right from the start.  I did take extra time between shots and actually walked down and back from the target a few times in between shots.  I’m going to have to set up my chronograph since the results show some potential.   The three shot groups at 100 yards measured 1 3/8”, 2 3/8” and 1 3/8”.  I would be nice to try five shot groups again.   

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A comparison and measurements from my fired and unfired cases looked very good, but I really need to set up the chronograph next time and see what the velocities are like.  Either the velocity is quite a bit higher or something changed with my point of aim, or maybe the rear sight got moved last time out.  Who knows, that’s the kind of thing that happens when you let your brother have the rifle for a few minutes…

Brad

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April 4, 2016 - 9:07 pm
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I hand-cut hardwood pulp for a living and a frozen morning like today is a good thing.  By afternoon it thaws and gets muddy.  That can be a good thing too.  This afternoon was reserved for handloading and testing my efforts with this rifle again.  Weather conditions were cloudy with a mild wind.  Cloudy skies have been good for setting up the chronograph.

The Hornady Third Edition lists their test rifle as an 1898 Springfield with a 30”, 1-10” barrel.  The Lyman 29th lists a universal receiver with a 24”, 1-10 barrel.  My rifle has the standard 28” barrel for the 30 US Model 1895.  I have crudely measured the twist by marking the cleaning rod and pulling a tight patch through the bore.  I believe it is also 1-10” or very close to it.  I stuck with the Hornady load data as mentioned previously.  Their published max load with 36.0 IMR 4064 is 36.0 grains for the 220 grain RN at 2,000fps. 

I highly doubt my Shooting Chrony set up outdoors is going to be as accurate as any equipment and set up used for these manuals.  I started by firing a cartridge that I had previously loaded with H4831 from a batch that had averaged 2,000fps and today it measured 1998fps, so that was a good start.  Yesterday I had started with a low charge of IMR 4064 and worked my way up.  I shot up the remainder of those loads through the chronograph and had a good idea where I should start today.  Here are the loads that measured close to my goal of approximately 2,000fps:

35.0 grains of IMR 4064 averaged 1978fps

35.5 grains of IMR 4064 averaged 1990fps

36.0 grains of IMR 4064 averaged 2016fps with an extreme spread of 19fps: 2021(cartridge leftover form yesterday), 2012, 2026, 2021, 2007 and 2009fps.

The final load put me where I wanted to be replicating a period 220 grain bullet velocity. Yesterday that load grouped three shots into 1 3/8” at 100 yards.  I made some elevation adjustments to my rear sight for the loads today and tried to keep them on the 6” paper plate I use for a target.  The three shots circled are from the 35.5 grain load and measured 2 ¼”.  I lowered elevation at the rear sight slightly and shot three of the 36.0 grain load.  These measured 1 3/8” again and after I marked them off and waited around for a while before shooting the final two, which increased the five-shot group to 1 ¾” at 100 yards.

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I’m very happy with this final load so far and also noticed I did not get the vertical stringing I was getting with earlier loads of H4831 after this many shots.  The average velocity is what I was looking for and the extreme spread in velocity is good as well.  I did take a lot of extra time between shots and groups again.  I do not totally understand the major point of impact change yet and a friend has explained that one factor may have to do with recoil differences between the loads.  I free recoil the forearm on the shooting bag and that method has resulted in the best groups for me with this particular rifle.  It will be interesting to see where the point of impact is with different holds.

At this time last year I was doing the same thing with another rifle chambered in 25-35 WCF.  That rifle seemed to be accurate with multiple bullets and powders right away and I felt like I had to work to get poor results.  This particular 1895 is accurate too; it just took me awhile to get there.   That is frustrating or fun depending on the day, but good learning opportunity regardless.

Brad

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April 5, 2016 - 2:16 am
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Thanks for sharing Brad.  That’s excellent info. I just had to run out to the shop to check and see if I had any 4064 left.  Got the powder, now I’ve got to get to town and pick up some 220 grain RN bullets.  Have been meaning to reload some 30-40 Krag for the longest time and just haven’t gotten around to it.  Now that you’ve done all the legwork, it should be a piece of cake.

BTW, I spent several years falling timber out here in the West.  Sure do miss the smell of fresh cut pine and the sound of big timber hitting the ground.  

Mark

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April 5, 2016 - 11:01 pm
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Good to hear from another logger.  There are an awful lot of Winchester collectors that are associated with logging.  I like that smell of pine, spruce etc. in the pile also.  I was around quite a bit of it over the winter.  Nothing the size of the trees you guys have out west though.

I went by the data published in my Third Edition Hornady manual as mentioned, along with some of the things covered in Ken Waters’ Pet Loads articles.  The velocities published in the Hornady manual seem to be close to what I measured in my past loads with H4831 and IMR 4064.  I guess you could say they did the legwork and I should have followed some direction from both sources more closely from the start!  I went in and picked up some more bullets today, and I noticed the place that seems to always have a big powder selection did not have any IMR 4064. 

I have wondered how the Hornady bullet would expand on deer, especially if shot behind the front shoulder or right through the ribs.  Many of the early soft point bullets had a lot of exposed lead at the tip. 

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April 6, 2016 - 2:22 am
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Very good and informative write-ups. I don’t have a 30-40, but I appreciate what you have written anyway.

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April 6, 2016 - 11:33 am
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Your posts on handloading over the years have been very helpful to me Kirk, and very much appreciated.  I’m looking forward to the next one.

Thanks,

Brad

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April 12, 2016 - 3:14 pm
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Brad good write-up and results

I never had luck neck sizing only in attempts with different cals. I have found that cases will move and grow over a few shots and the body gets tight in the chamber again (bad thing for you hunters)

I have found it best to use the FLS die ,  adjusting it down as little as possible to bump the shoulders and body just enough to chamber freely.(partial full length sizing , not just neck sizing ) Once this setting is established and locked  it never need be moved for that rifle. It can never become tight on shoulders and body again with your setting. You have established your clearance

If it feels tight to chamber in future it can only be in the neck, as shoulders and body have clearance. It is surprising how tight neck clearance is on some antique rifles (some used undersized lead bullets , meant to bump up bullet dia with the appropriate pressure charge. So using a larger dia bullet that is more accurate in your gun, or with abnormal neck brass thickness (varies between diff lots and manufacturers ) may make neck fit snug. Once I discovered this I have had to neck turn more necks in various cals than I ever imagined, (with 38-55’s almost for sure needing it with 379 – 381 dia bullets)  An 1886 in 40-82 with .410 bullet that works will in my gun ,  has required the most amount of neck turning of all my adaptations so far,   but you only have to do it once. I Initially experimented with neck fit by hand metal filing on neck at the shooting bench , untill chambering nicely

But the biggest growth in neck dia on a cartridge I have noticed is because of the crimp operation bulging a bit . If you crimp (and hunters have to) the cases must be trimmed precisely the same length and crimp has be be set perfect to avoid erratic bulge , that you can moniter with micrometer

Also a possibility of neck being not consistently concentric with the body.

These are the most common problems with neck fit that I have encountered

Phil

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April 13, 2016 - 1:08 am
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Hi Phil

I was about to declare you MIALaugh  I hope all is good and you found some good cigars over the winter.

Thanks for the information on sizing.  I jumped back into the 33 WCF again a few days ago.  That was one of your old favorites if I remember correct.

Brad

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