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Lever REvolution ammo in old guns
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Anchorage, Alaska
Posts: 106
February 10, 2022 - 5:16 pm

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Curious if the Hornady Lever Revolution ammo is safe in 100 year old guns? I can’t seem to locate pressures on this ammo compared to older factory ammo or reloads. I have used it in my 1955 carbine with no issues, but I’m not sure I’d want to risk it in a 100+ year old rifle. Any thoughts?

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Northern edge of the D/FW Metromess
Posts: 4884
February 10, 2022 - 5:34 pm

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Depends on the chambering and model. For example, I would not use LeverRevolution 45-70 ammo in an 1886. Hornady’s website is a good source of info last time I looked. I can’t get it to load at the moment.

 

Mike

Life Member TSRA, Endowment Member NRA
BBHC Member, TGCA Member
Smokeless powder is a passing fad! -Steve Garbe
I hate rude behavior in a man. I won't tolerate it. -Woodrow F. Call, Lonesome Dove
Some of my favorite recipes start out with a handful of depleted counterbalance devices.-TXGunNut
Presbyopia be damned, I'm going to shoot this thing! -TXGunNut
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NY
Posts: 6163
February 10, 2022 - 6:21 pm

3sp_QuotePost

Matt Herman said
 I can’t seem to locate pressures on this ammo compared to older factory ammo or reloads. I have used it in my 1955 carbine with no issues, but I’m not sure I’d want to risk it in a 100+ year old rifle. Any thoughts?  

Is there a warning on the box, such as “for use only in modern rifles?  A ’55 is a modern gun, but if pressures are dangerously high for BP period guns, the company would be exposing itself to negligence suits by failing to print such a warning.

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Anchorage, Alaska
Posts: 106
February 10, 2022 - 6:59 pm

4sp_QuotePost

I am unsure of any warning, I don’t have any of the ammo in front of me. 

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Northern edge of the D/FW Metromess
Posts: 4884
February 10, 2022 - 7:27 pm

5sp_QuotePost

As I recall the 45-70 is classified as an “1895 Marlin” load and I don’t think it would be a good choice for an older 1886.

 

Mike

Life Member TSRA, Endowment Member NRA
BBHC Member, TGCA Member
Smokeless powder is a passing fad! -Steve Garbe
I hate rude behavior in a man. I won't tolerate it. -Woodrow F. Call, Lonesome Dove
Some of my favorite recipes start out with a handful of depleted counterbalance devices.-TXGunNut
Presbyopia be damned, I'm going to shoot this thing! -TXGunNut
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Anchorage, Alaska
Posts: 106
February 10, 2022 - 10:28 pm

6sp_QuotePost

I called Hornady today and they relayed to me that for .32 Win Special, (which is the caliber in particular I inquired about) that their Leverevolution ammo is at 39,000 psi. Saami spec for 32 Win Special is 42,000 psi. In addition I looked at Buffalo Bores website which has a table showing velocities out of a 22” Model 1894 from 1906. That tells me that both the Leverevolution and the Buffalo Bore should be safe in the older rifles. Interesting!

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NY
Posts: 6163
February 10, 2022 - 11:00 pm

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Matt Herman said
I called Hornady today and they relayed to me that for .32 Win Special, (which is the caliber in particular I inquired about) that their Leverevolution ammo is at 39,000 psi. Saami spec for 32 Win Special is 42,000 psi. In addition I looked at Buffalo Bores website which has a table showing velocities out of a 22” Model 1894 from 1906. That tells me that both the Leverevolution and the Buffalo Bore should be safe in the older rifles. Interesting!  

Most ammo companies have always loaded BP cartridges to be safe in old guns–to keep them out of court.  If that’s what Hornady is doing, what’s the point of their “revolution” hype?   

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SO. Oregon
Posts: 678
February 11, 2022 - 1:24 am

8sp_QuotePost

I think it has to do with the ability to use spritzer / pointed cartridges in tubular magazine lever actions.

Vince
Southern Oregon
NRA member
Fraternal Order of Eagles

 “There is but one answer to be made to the dynamite bomb and that can best be made by the Winchester rifle.”

Teddy Roosevelt 

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Northern edge of the D/FW Metromess
Posts: 4884
February 12, 2022 - 12:49 am

9sp_QuotePost

Vince said
I think it has to do with the ability to use spritzer / pointed cartridges in tubular magazine lever actions.  

That’s my understanding as well. The powder used in some of the LR cartridges is also formulated a bit differently. The ammunition was developed for modern firearms, IMHO. Some are fine for older guns but many ammo makers market ammo to take advantage of some of the stronger actions chambered for the 45-70 and they make every effort to communicate to the consumer that these loads should not be fired in weaker actions like the Springfield and the 1886. The 1886 was a strong action for its time but it was designed for BP pressures. 

 

Mike

Life Member TSRA, Endowment Member NRA
BBHC Member, TGCA Member
Smokeless powder is a passing fad! -Steve Garbe
I hate rude behavior in a man. I won't tolerate it. -Woodrow F. Call, Lonesome Dove
Some of my favorite recipes start out with a handful of depleted counterbalance devices.-TXGunNut
Presbyopia be damned, I'm going to shoot this thing! -TXGunNut
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Posts: 4105
February 12, 2022 - 4:10 pm

10sp_QuotePost

TXGunNut said

That’s my understanding as well. The powder used in some of the LR cartridges is also formulated a bit differently. The ammunition was developed for modern firearms, IMHO. Some are fine for older guns but many ammo makers market ammo to take advantage of some of the stronger actions chambered for the 45-70 and they make every effort to communicate to the consumer that these loads should not be fired in weaker actions like the Springfield and the 1886. The 1886 was a strong action for its time but it was designed for BP pressures. 

 

Mike  

I have some thoughts about the, “design” aspect.  The M1886 was designed in the 1880’s but clearly the, “design” of that action is suitable for modern loads.  As an example I will offer the more modern reproductions of this action (e.g. the modern Browning).  The Winchester M71 was clearly brought out with a high power smokeless powder cartridge in mind, and carries the M1886 design.  The M71 has proven itself given the many that people have converted them .450 Alaskans.

There is quite an age difference between a first year production Model 1886 and those produced at the end of production.  Surely there were improvements in the steel used.  Personally, I would shoot an early production Model 1886 with only black powder equivalent loads.  In fact, I shoot most everything on the lighter side.  

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Anchorage, Alaska
Posts: 106
February 13, 2022 - 11:33 pm

11sp_QuotePost

At the beginning of the thread, the Model 1886 was used as an example by TxGunNut, and I understand that in a black powder rifle one likely wouldn’t want to use the modern high power ammo. But are we in agreement that Hornady Leverevolution and/or Buffalo Bore ammo would be safe in an Model 1894 from 1907?

On Buffalo Bores website it shows one of the rifles used to test their ammo is a model 1894 made in 1906. 

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NY
Posts: 6163
February 13, 2022 - 11:56 pm

12sp_QuotePost

Matt Herman said  But are we in agreement that Hornady Leverevolution and/or Buffalo Bore ammo would be safe in an Model 1894 from 1907?
 

Of course!  That’s a modern smokeless powder rifle!

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Anchorage, Alaska
Posts: 106
February 14, 2022 - 1:05 am

13sp_QuotePost

Excellent, thanks for the help all!

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Northern edge of the D/FW Metromess
Posts: 4884
February 14, 2022 - 2:27 pm

14sp_QuotePost

Matt Herman said
At the beginning of the thread, the Model 1886 was used as an example by TxGunNut, and I understand that in a black powder rifle one likely wouldn’t want to use the modern high power ammo. But are we in agreement that Hornady Leverevolution and/or Buffalo Bore ammo would be safe in an Model 1894 from 1907?

On Buffalo Bores website it shows one of the rifles used to test their ammo is a model 1894 made in 1906.   

Yes, for our purposes the 32WS is a modern cartridge and is compatible with Hornady’s LR ammo. That ammo in particular shoots very well in my 32WS 1894’s.

 

Mike

Life Member TSRA, Endowment Member NRA
BBHC Member, TGCA Member
Smokeless powder is a passing fad! -Steve Garbe
I hate rude behavior in a man. I won't tolerate it. -Woodrow F. Call, Lonesome Dove
Some of my favorite recipes start out with a handful of depleted counterbalance devices.-TXGunNut
Presbyopia be damned, I'm going to shoot this thing! -TXGunNut
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Posts: 4105
February 14, 2022 - 5:09 pm

15sp_QuotePost

TXGunNut said

Yes, for our purposes the 32WS is a modern cartridge and is compatible with Hornady’s LR ammo. That ammo in particular shoots very well in my 32WS 1894’s.

 

Mike  

I’ve never tried it.  Sounds worth trying. What does a box go for these days.

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Northern edge of the D/FW Metromess
Posts: 4884
February 14, 2022 - 5:17 pm

16sp_QuotePost

steve004 said

I’ve never tried it.  Sounds worth trying. What does a box go for these days.  

No idea, probably $40. I tried it when it first came out and it was probably less than $20. I very seldom buy factory rifle ammo but the bullets and powder sounded interesting and Hornady makes good brass.

 

Mike

Life Member TSRA, Endowment Member NRA
BBHC Member, TGCA Member
Smokeless powder is a passing fad! -Steve Garbe
I hate rude behavior in a man. I won't tolerate it. -Woodrow F. Call, Lonesome Dove
Some of my favorite recipes start out with a handful of depleted counterbalance devices.-TXGunNut
Presbyopia be damned, I'm going to shoot this thing! -TXGunNut
Avatar
Posts: 4105
February 14, 2022 - 5:28 pm

17sp_QuotePost

TXGunNut said

No idea, probably $40. I tried it when it first came out and it was probably less than $20. I very seldom buy factory rifle ammo but the bullets and powder sounded interesting and Hornady makes good brass.

 

Mike  

I just did a search.  It is completely unavailable through all suppliers (i.e. an ammoseek.com search). In fact, the only  .32 special that turned up at all was a box of Remington Corelokt for $85.   One private seller on gunbroker is offering 28 rounds of .32 leverevolution for $120 (plus $20 shipping and sales tax).  

It doesn’t look like I’ll be trying any out.  I wonder when (or if) the manufacturers will return to producing these less popular calibers?

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