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117gr. cast in the 25-35
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January 3, 2016 - 10:43 pm
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   I have an old 1894 in 25-35 and a stash of 117gr. cast, gas checked bullets I want to shoot up. Has anyone here used Titegroup, 5744 or Trail Boss in the 25-35 with 117 grainers? I would like to keep the velocity around 1000 f.p.s. I tried these bullets with 4064 and 4320, but the velocity was near 2000 f.p.s. and the bullets didn’t even hit the target at 50 yards. 117 gr. Hornady round nose seem to shoot ok, but I have these cast bullets so I may as well work up a load and shoot them. Any and all help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.       RRM

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January 8, 2016 - 5:29 am
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I have yet to try cast in my .25-35.  (I plan to, but other calibers are ahead of it in the works.)  What I’ve read and what I use Titegroup for–I am not considering it for cast in any of the 1894 calibers.  Titegroup is a fast powder, quick to peak pressure.  It is an excellent powder for my family’s handguns.

When I do test cast loads in my .25-35, Reloder 7 and H4895 will be the powders I begin with.  They are more mid-range in their burn-rate, and their pressure curve will be more gentle than that of Titegroup.  There are other powders that folks are finding success with for this caliber; a jaunt around the cast bullet forums and the free on-line manuals will help to guide you.  When you find a powder you think might work, do check “official” sources–reloading manuals and powder manufacturers’ data.  Typos and hot-rodders’ loads could spoil a good day.

At present, I’m wrestling the universe in trying to develop an accurate cast load in .38-55.  My methods are sound and everything should be coming together–yet still suffering open groups.  I’ve been chasing this load long enough that I’m beginning to suspect, in fact I’m pretty certain, sun flares are pushing my bullets off center.  Nothing in the manuals about that, so I’m headed into lonely territory!

When I get to the .25-35 cast, I’ll share the load on this site.

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January 8, 2016 - 10:15 am
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Fromthewoods,   thanks for responding. I too will be playing with different loads. I figure about the time I get one worked up I’ll have shot them all up. Sounds like fun to me. Thanks again and good luck on your trek.     RRM

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January 8, 2016 - 1:24 pm
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Wow SUN FLARES You could be onto something there 

I always assumed that it was the spells my ex-wife had cast on my 38-55’s and 44-40’s

I enjoy the challenge of load development, but a lack of meaningful advancement is frustrating

I have thought Ive been on the threshold of break-thru with these cals, someday hope to crack it too. I guess its just like the Mythical Monster Buck you catch a glimpse of on rare occasions

Cheers

Phil

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January 12, 2016 - 2:59 pm
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RRM,

I would suggest trying 5 grs of Trail Boss. I don’t have a .25-35 but in the 30-30, 5 / TB pushes a 120 gr cast bullet right around 1,000 f.p.s.  In the smaller .25 bore I would expect that velocity would be in the 1,100-1,200 f.p.s. range.

I don’t know if the 117 gr bullet would be stable at that reduced velocity. It will be interesting to learn if they are.

Did you make the bullets or did you purchase them?

w30wcf    

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January 12, 2016 - 10:47 pm
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Actually I bought them from a fellow in Washington state. I believe he made them. Thank’s for the tip on the load.   RRM

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February 11, 2016 - 6:02 am
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Rat Rod, have you settled on a powder/load yet?

I’m ready to load for my .25-35’s, and am now searching for data with H4895 and RL 7 (Rx 7).

Not finished with the .38-55–awaiting a batch of gas-checked bullets.  They are sure to shoot straight this time!  I’ve built an Anti-Solar Flair Gravity-Warp Super-Deactivation Spell-Deflector and fixed Phil’s ex at its center.  In the Western Hemisphere, we should all be shooting bulls-eye’s for at least the next 42 days.  Let’s get to it, Boys!  –And Girls! too.

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February 11, 2016 - 12:13 pm
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Please send me the plans, and also post loads  !!

Phil

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February 11, 2016 - 9:11 pm
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Whoa, Phil!

Good thing I had just swallowed my coffee–would have spewed all across the screen.

  I misread your post as a ransom demand–“Send the plans, and I’ll post loads!!”  You still get the humor award anyway.

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February 12, 2016 - 10:44 pm
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FromTheWoods, yes I have been playing around with my .25-35 and after a lot of shots I have given up on the cast bullets with the gas checks. I threw away all of the targets and figured life’s too short to pursue something that is not going to pan out anyway. Two of the powders I used were Trail Boss and Titegroup. I tried to keep velocity around 1000 to 1100 f.p.s. Tried a couple of others and when the velocity exceeded 1200 f.p.s. or so the bullets key holed. No more cast bullets for me. The bore on this rifle is frosted so that may have had an impact on the performance of these bullets. Good bore and the results may have been better.

Now, on to the bullets that I have settled on,, the Hornady 117 gr. round nose. All of the loads I tried used the same components except power and charge weights. All cases were Winchester – Western, primers – Winchester Large Rifle, with an over all length of 2.600″. Here are some of the powders that I used,, IMR-4198, IMR-3031,  H-335,  IMR-4895, BL-C (2),  Varget,  RL-15 and H-4895. Some of these were ok I guess, but nothing to write home about.

One thing that I have to make clear is the fact that I do not like to wring every last ounce of velocity out of my firearms. It’s hard on the gun, brass and everything else and I just don’t see the sense in it. So with that being said I tried to keep the velocity between 1950 and 2100 f.p.s. 

Now here are the good ones,, this first load is going to be my .25-35 load from now on. It just plain hammers them in there with an average velocity of 2067 f.p.s. 27/H-380 day in and day out this load shoots IN MY RIFLE. Next best, and if I had not discovered the H-380 load I could easily live with this one. 28.5/760 very good load for an average velocity of 2090 f.p.s. This last load is kind of tricky because on one day it would shoot one load very well and the next day another load good. I load my experimental loads in five grain increments so this load goes as such,, 24 or 24.5 or 25 grains all seem to do good. The 24 grain load averages 1943 f.p.s. while the 25 grain load averages 2010 f.p.s.

If any of you guys have one of these old rifles and enjoy just taking them out to play with give a couple of these loads a go and see if they perform for you as well as they have for me. Hope this information will serve you well. Thank you and good shooting.   RRM

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February 14, 2016 - 6:19 am
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Thank you, Rat Rod Mac.  That’s too bad your rifle doesn’t shoot the cast bullets.  At least though, you can still enjoy shooting the jacketed.

The Remington .257 86 grain jacketed flat-nose is a good one out of a .25-35.  Since the reloading supplies shortage, I haven’t been able to find them.  They are nice for plinking and for small game.

While I’ve been looking through .25-35 data, I did notice H380 in some of the charts.  That’s the powder I use for the .270.  Given your success, I’ll study its aspects for .25-35’s.  Definitely will try it.

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February 14, 2016 - 3:36 pm
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A bit off topic of cast bullet loads for the 25-35 , but possibly an interesting alternative in obtaining cheap factory ammo and cheap brass (cheaper than hard to find Win factory loads) In US $ should be about a buck a shot which is probably also about the price for empty brass you might come across. 

I am trying to order 38-72 empty brass and if available it will be $5 each

I have posted about me using this ammo before but will attempt to give more info here

The European designation for the 25-35 is 6.5 x 52 R which is the metric dimensions in cm   (1 cm = .3937″)  apparently still popular

Product info 

http://www.sellier-bellot.cz/en/product/rifle-ammunition/rifle-ammunition/products/detail/173/

The info in ballistic table  is in metric but can be converted 

the velocity of 650 M/sec x 3.281 conversion factor is 2,133 F/s whereas Win fact is 2280 f/s

drop at 300 Meters with 0 at 100 M , is -116 cm x .3937″ conversion factor  = 45.6″

I am least familiar with reloading 25-35 of all the 94 calibers because I have only had this cal in the last 3 years

I have loaded a few jacketed bullets of various weights and configurations for single shot shooting with good results

I have looked at 25-35 ‘s whenever seen for sale (few and far between in Canada) but never see good bores .

In the last 3-4 years I have acquired 2 1894 rifles , an OBR (1908) and a RBR. (1905)  Both were designated VG +bores (un seen ,not inspected by me ) but are only in the good range ,but still for money paid I dont regret either. They both shoot this low recoil S&B ammo accurately and much flatter shooting at 300 M (OBR shot at 300 M ) than my favorite cals such as 32-20 and 32-40

Phil

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