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I just purchased a few Winchester lever guns, one of them is a model 1866 s/n 156588 have a beautiful engraved, have initial J U stamped on the right hand side below loading gate. How can I find out who engraved this rifle? I have request a letter from the museum about a week ago. Please let me know. Thanks
NRA, SAFARI CLUB INT'L SASS LIFE MEBER, POW MIA ACTIVE MEMEBER.
Sam,
If you can post some good pictures of the engraving here we could tell if it was professionally done then if it looks good you can send the pictures to Pauline Muerrle at paulinemuerrle.com She worked for Winchester as an engraver and for $75 she writes a authentication letter.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
I wonder, where are my the pictures go?
NRA, SAFARI CLUB INT'L SASS LIFE MEBER, POW MIA ACTIVE MEMEBER.
Sam,
Yes there has been a few posts that disappeared. There are a few bugs in this site so odd stuff has been happening.
Did you get the letter from Pauline yet?
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
Bob
Yes, I did.
Here she wrote an E-Mail back to me:
Hi Sam,
I issued a refund to your Paypal. That is why I tell people to contact me before sending info or payment. If I can’t tell you who did it there is no charge. I have looked at your pic and all I can tell you is that none of the factory engravers during that time period did this gun. I do not recognize the engraving so I can’t tell you who did it.
Thanks, Pauline M.
The only J U I know is John Ulrich but this engraving is definitely not his work.
I can’t make out the initials in this picture. It almost looks like someone polished that area. I an see faint marks and some of the engraving is faint there too.
She is very nice lady, intelligent and most knowledge.
I also got a letter from Cody Firearms Record for this rifle said nothing about engraved the only thing the letter said : Received at warehouse on June 20, 1882 and ordered # XXXXX. No further information.
I am very disappointed for the result, but still beautiful rifle for conversation piece.
Bpb, any other way I can find out who did the engraved?
NRA, SAFARI CLUB INT'L SASS LIFE MEBER, POW MIA ACTIVE MEMEBER.
Sam,
No way to tell who did it besides reconiziing the style. Back then there was many engravers outside of the factory.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
Sam,
You should put the photos back up, Someone might recognize the engraving in the future.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
Bob,
I will have a new better camera toda and try to add better pictures on the forum this weekends.
Sam
NRA, SAFARI CLUB INT'L SASS LIFE MEBER, POW MIA ACTIVE MEMEBER.
Don’t know who the engraver is but I’m quite certain you can eliminate the Ulrich brothers, Herman and Conrad. Their signature style was to have a floral border around the trigger screw and patterns around the leading edge and rear edge of the receiver.
At first I had only seen the photos above, but after reading the first post with reference to the initials J U I did some research and found a reference to a third brother, John Ulrich, who started as an assembler and did much less engraving than his two more famous brothers. The border style on your “Yellow Boy” above is just like that of John Ulrich.
Take a look at Madis’ The Winchester Book, page 65.
"This is the West, sir. When the legend becomes fact, print the legend."
Thank you for your information, I will buy this book from Amazon.com. you see Pauline M. reply my E-Mail, she said definitely not John Urich as engraver, I am believe her 100%, I did not know John Urich have a third brother, I through he have just the only two.
This rifle is about 90% ++ bore is almost like new, I look through my bore scope it no rust or pitting at all.
Thank you again for help me research on this rifle.
Here is someone reply me on other forum:
These are just observations and I claim no expertise. 30 years ago, I thought I knew something about Winchesters; now, I like to think I know something about Rugers!
It does appear to be period engraving; the scrolls are nice, but do not appear as “filled in” as most Factory Winchester engraving period engraving. The animal motifs appear to be a whitetail and an elk, American animals that the “foreign” Winchester Factory engravers did not seem to do. The photos of near all the Factory engraved 1866’s I have looked at have animals resembling European animals. The chiseled relief of the animal backgrounds was not generally found on 1866’s. If it is not marked somewhere with the engravers initials, mark, etc., then it will take a lot of study and comparison to make an educated guess as to the engraver. You are going to have to get “expert” and experienced Winchester help.
NRA, SAFARI CLUB INT'L SASS LIFE MEBER, POW MIA ACTIVE MEMEBER.
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