Log In
Members
Home
Add Reply
Add Topic
Offline
I have a real soft spot for M1886 SRC. Particularly so in .50 Express. More so in .50-100-450 but that’s another dream. Anyway, I see two current opportunities:
I find I have a preference for the Rock Island carbine. I’d like to hold it in my hands before saying much more, but based on what I can see, I find it appealing. The one Don has no character, but the larger issue for me is it just doesn’t look right.
What do others think? Anyone have the same preference as me?
I agree with you that the Don Grove gun doesn’t look right. To me it looks refinished, both wood and metal, but would need an in-hand inspection confirm. The Rock Island gun looks used (but not abused) and honest, but no mention of the sling eyes in the letter. The letter is somewhat confusing as well. It states it began as a carbine, but then changed to a carbine on an R&R. Maybe an error on the letter? Maybe began as a rifle (not a carbine)?
Don
I agree with Don concerning the Don Grove gun. It looks refinished to me. Marks on the forearm where it was removed at one point. You may find clearer pictures on his web site. https://www.thewinchestergrove.com/1886/index.htm
deerhunter said
I agree with you that the Don Grove gun doesn’t look right. To me it looks refinished, both wood and metal, but would need an in-hand inspection confirm. The Rock Island gun looks used (but not abused) and honest, but no mention of the sling eyes in the letter. The letter is somewhat confusing as well. It states it began as a carbine, but then changed to a carbine on an R&R. Maybe an error on the letter? Maybe began as a rifle (not a carbine)?Don
You have pegged the only things that makes good sense where the letter is concerned.
Add: And why wait until 1910 to reship…or was it another typo?
James
I suspect it would be illuminating to take a look at the ledger entry for this carbine. It’s not believable that the rifle was returned for a repair on 1/15/05 and then reshipped over five years later on 2/2/10 (who would be willing to wait that long?). It of course makes no sense it would have been returned for a, “repair” on 1/15/05 when it had been only just shipped out on 1/10/05. Of course, we know, “repair” often means a change vs. an actual repair. In this case, we know the change was to a carbine so presumably, it was originally shipped as a rifle.
I believe it was simply returned – perhaps by a dealer who didn’t think he could sell it in whatever chambering/configuration it was in. So, perhaps it sat around the factory until someone ordered a .50 Express carbine – and they for whatever reasons, selected this one, removed the stock, barrel and tube from the receiver and replaced it with carbine parts? I find this quite intriguing. Why did they pick this one to tear down when an order came in for a .50 Express carbine? Wouldn’t they have just made one up to fill that order? We’re they convinced this one would never sell in the configuration it was in? During the course of five years, they didn’t have a single order for a rifle in whatever configuration this was in?
Another thought runs through my mind. Switching the configuration of a M1886 can be as simple as replacing the wood and the barrel/tube. But .50’s are special. More internal work had to occur to the action to make the big .50 cartridges feed. Maybe this one had originally been a .50 Express rifle (or .50-100-450) when it was returned. When order came in for a .50 carbine and they knew this one would require no action modifications – a carbine barrel could simply be screwed in and it would be good to go.
Sure has me thinking on this cold dreary winter morning.
Other thoughts?
Well Mine is not a .50 but if You read the post on “odd ball ’86 You will find I have one the same , returned to Russ June 14/ 10 carbine 45-70, recvd’ July 5’04 shipd’ June 15 1910. Having a good idea how the shops worked back then, I don’t find it unbelievable but I do find it odd, not unlike some of the other odd things I’ve run across from Winchester.
W.A.C.A. life member, Marlin Collectors Assn. charter and life member, C,S.S.A. member and general gun nut.
I also agree that something’s not right with the Don Grove rifle. I find the considerable “gap” between the receiver and the forearm the most concerning.
The Rock Island rifle’s letter is odd to say the least.
Personally, I’d continue my search rather than going with one of these rifles.
Winchester Model 1873 44-40 circa 1886
Kevin Jones said
I also agree that something’s not right with the Don Grove rifle. I find the considerable “gap” between the receiver and the forearm the most concerning.The Rock Island rifle’s letter is odd to say the least.
Personally, I’d continue my search rather than going with one of these rifles.
Kevin –
Is it the odd letter that would steer you away from the RIA carbine or are there other factors (i.e. other than lower percent of finish)?
No doubt! Twenty years ago, or even less for that matter, it would not have been a deal breaker, but today, if something does not match up, forget it amd move on is the smart thing to do. On down the road might be different, but not now.
James
jwm94 said
No doubt! Twenty years ago, or even less for that matter, it would not have been a deal breaker, but today, if something does not match up, forget it amd move on is the smart thing to do. On down the road might be different, but not now.James
I was feeling more forgiving on the odd letter. The letter clearly states it is a .50 caliber carbine – and that’s what it is. For me, the only thing out of sync is the swivel eyelets are not mentioned in the letter. My thought is the letter is odd because it either has some typos or just not an accurate reflection of the ledger. A recheck of the ledger would likely clear things up. However, I find your take on it very relevant. It comes down to the adage about it being easier to buy something than sell it. When I buy something and conclude to myself that the piece is, “right” I need to remember that subsequent owners may not draw the same conclusion.
steve004 said
I was feeling more forgiving on the odd letter. The letter clearly states it is a .50 caliber carbine – and that’s what it is. For me, the only thing out of sync is the swivel eyelets are not mentioned in the letter. My thought is the letter is odd because it either has some typos or just not an accurate reflection of the ledger. A recheck of the ledger would likely clear things up. However, I find your take on it very relevant. It comes down to the adage about it being easier to buy something than sell it. When I buy something and conclude to myself that the piece is, “right” I need to remember that subsequent owners may not draw the same conclusion.
Morning Steve! 
Wife and I are down with the flu…probably has a lot to do with my grouchiness this AM, as I am a bit more forgiving, myself! The good thing is that I’m almost over it and the wife is about halfway there. It’s been a very long and trying six to eight months with a lot of downers in the household. Hoping the remainder of the year gets a whole lot better.
About the subject rifle: I think it’s nothing more than typos as well, and that a recheck of the ledger would likely clear things up, too. Should this be the case, I’d not let the swivel eyelets stop me from buying, provided the price was right.
James
Added: BTW, I’d like to test how much the market has plummeted on Whitney-Kennedy’s! Would you and Shrapnel like to play?! 
I really like Shrapnel’s W-K carbines!!!! Do you have pics of your rifles too?!
James – sorry to hear of your flu. That sure can put a different cast on things.
Shrap is the pretty one. At least, he’s the one with the pretty Whitney-Kennedy rifles (and carbines 
). I’ll not put myself in a beauty contest next to him.
I think there is a definite decline in W-K collectors out there. I can think of at least two prominent collectors that have passed away in recent years. In fact, I think RIA will be featuring the collection of the most recent one who passed away – coming up this spring I think. I recall it took them five catalogs to sell all that Lew Steadman had. I would say that similar to Winchesters, the market is much softer. There are definitely less W-K collectors extant than Winchester collectors.
All comments greatly appreciated, Steve.
I’ve never had the impression that there were many W-K collectors out there, but when I saw my first W-K next to some Winchester levers…only the Whitney-Kennedy grabbed my undivided attention, and I’ve never lost interest in them yet!
I do remember that Lew Steadman’s guns were listed on auction, but I just never bought one of them.
One would be inclined to think that the market would be much softer for the high end W-K’s than what it is for Winchester’s, but I don’t get that impression at all where lower conditioned guns are concerned…maybe since there are so many of the lesser conditioned Winchesters on the market in comparison.
I’m certainly looking forward to the Spring auctions!
James
It’s just my impression, but I think Bullard collectors are even in shorter supply than Whitney-Kennedy collectors.
jwm94 said
steve004 said
I was feeling more forgiving on the odd letter. The letter clearly states it is a .50 caliber carbine – and that’s what it is. For me, the only thing out of sync is the swivel eyelets are not mentioned in the letter. My thought is the letter is odd because it either has some typos or just not an accurate reflection of the ledger. A recheck of the ledger would likely clear things up. However, I find your take on it very relevant. It comes down to the adage about it being easier to buy something than sell it. When I buy something and conclude to myself that the piece is, “right” I need to remember that subsequent owners may not draw the same conclusion.
Morning Steve!
Wife and I are down with the flu…probably has a lot to do with my grouchiness this AM, as I am a bit more forgiving, myself! The good thing is that I’m almost over it and the wife is about halfway there. It’s been a very long and trying six to eight months with a lot of downers in the household. Hoping the remainder of the year gets a whole lot better.
About the subject rifle: I think it’s nothing more than typos as well, and that a recheck of the ledger would likely clear things up, too. Should this be the case, I’d not let the swivel eyelets stop me from buying, provided the price was right.
James
Added:
James – I sent you a pm.
Online
1 Guest(s)
