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Which auction house to sell my 1873?
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vtresch
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June 16, 2015 - 8:29 pm
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 I have a first year production 1873 that I was planning to sell using one of the major auction houses.  All three (RIA, Julia and Cowan’s) have shown interest but varied confidence in selling for the $ I am hoping to get.  If any of you have experience with them I would love to hear from you.  I’ve seen some negative remarks posted with regard to RIA but I have not searched extensively.

I appreciate any assistance you can provide.  Thank you.

Jeff

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June 17, 2015 - 4:13 am
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Jeff,

There are a few other auction houses to consider; Amoskeag – http://www.amoskeagauction.com/index.html , and Carol Watson – http://cwocauctions.com/

Bert

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June 17, 2015 - 4:22 am
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Jeff,

Carol Watson’s OC Auctions ( see above ) is a solid company and about as personalized as you can get. You’ll get honest input and fair policies & terms.

They are at many of the major guns shows, and you can get to know them there if you attend.

Bill

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June 17, 2015 - 6:55 pm
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Bert H. and Bill (Blueliner);

     Do you think Carol Watson Auctions or Amoskeag have a large enough “Upscale” following to handle my Winchester 1866 Carbine that’s currently on loan and on display in the NRA’s Museum? In the current market, the average price as estimated by representitives of 3 auction houses is in the mid $200,000 range. ($235,000.00 – $275,000.00) The price given to me by one of the “Big Three’s” representives prior to the collapse of the financial markets was a seven figure number. Of coarse all this talk about prices means “Doodly Squat” to quote a saying in a movie. Can they deliver? And without asking me, or my hiers to sign “your life away?” That’s the prime question. I’ll contact Carol Watson and Amoskeag and listen to their rap. (or is it schpeel?)

ApacheConfusedConfused

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June 17, 2015 - 9:24 pm
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Hi,

Has anyone here used Little John’s Auction Service? I have seen some serious  Winchesters sell for serious money there.

Walter

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June 17, 2015 - 9:54 pm
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Walter,

Little John’s Auction Services is now merged with Cowan’s and under that name.

There is one final December auction at LJ.

Bill

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June 17, 2015 - 10:16 pm
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Jeff, can you give us more details as far as condition? Is it a lower tang marked gun? Sometimes a private sale is just as good or better. Thanks,

Casey Nanz

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812-221-6533

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June 18, 2015 - 2:36 am
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Yes it is a lower tang marked gun. Condition is good to very good.  Bluing is very nice. Some provenance that would be interesting to the right person. Wood is good and original. No cleaning rod. Set trigger stem is broken. With Cody letter. 44 Cal. 

Jeff

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June 18, 2015 - 5:51 am
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Apache said

Bert H. and Bill (Blueliner);

     Do you think Carol Watson Auctions or Amoskeag have a large enough “Upscale” following to handle my Winchester 1866 Carbine that’s currently on loan and on display in the NRA’s Museum? In the current market, the average price as estimated by representitives of 3 auction houses is in the mid $200,000 range. ($235,000.00 – $275,000.00) The price given to me by one of the “Big Three’s” representives prior to the collapse of the financial markets was a seven figure number. Of coarse all this talk about prices means “Doodly Squat” to quote a saying in a movie. Can they deliver? And without asking me, or my hiers to sign “your life away?” That’s the prime question. I’ll contact Carol Watson and Amoskeag and listen to their rap. (or is it schpeel?)

ApacheConfusedConfused

Larry,

Short answer to your question is Yes, I believe that both auction houses have the clientele to sell your Model 1866 for the top market value today.

 Bert

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June 18, 2015 - 5:45 pm
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Wally;

      I used Little John’s last year to sell most if my firearms collection. Overall I was completely satisfied. I was however a little dissapointed when a couple of firearms were misplaced by them. It eventually turned out okay, the missing firearms were found. What bothered me more though was a very collectable pistol that sold on the lower end of their estimate, only to be resold by RIA at almost 3 times the price a couple of months later. Even a 50% mistake in the estimated price could be acceptable, but 3 times the difference in such a short period of time makes one wonder. Make sure you do your “Market” research before you agree to any auction house estimate. Many tend to “Low Ball” on estimated prices, making for easier sales or whatever on their part.

    Wally, I desided against the jaguar XK-8, and will keep my Vette as in the long run it probably will be worth more. This is a much easier machine to work on, as I have maintained the Vette for the past 24 years. (no computer, minimum electronics, no air pump, and is over 38 years old) Good luck if you deside to sell off your Winchesters.

ApacheWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWinkWink

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June 18, 2015 - 11:45 pm
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Larry,

Your auction experience info is very helpful. The lower price on the pistol could be “auction games” or just bad luck.

Yes, your Vette will appreciate in value, but don’t you want a mid-life crisis with the Jag?

Walter 

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June 19, 2015 - 1:09 am
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Wally;

    My “Mid-Life” came and went about 30 years ago. I would however consider a AH 100-4, maybe. I once had an Arnolt-Bristol for about 2 years. Oil leaked out of every gasket. I never could get it stopped, but a great car though.

LarryCoolCoolCoolCoolCoolCoolCoolCoolCoolCoolCoolCoolCoolCool

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June 20, 2015 - 1:42 pm
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Another vote for Amoskeag….No surprises, quick and efficient….

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June 20, 2015 - 4:21 pm
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Winchesterbob and Wallyb;

   To the best of my knowledge Amoskeag has never sold at auction a firearm at or over the 6 figure number.

    Wally;

         A couple of years ago Cowen’s advertised that they had sold at a private sale an 1873 Engraved and Gold Inlayed Winchester for over 1 million dollars. There was a big “Hullabaloo” on this forum about it being authentic. Cowen’s never gave a serial number on this rifle, nor any other way of actually identifying it through the Winchester Record Books. This most magnificent rifle was never heard of before nor since the sale. Were I you, I would read the interesting Thread on this rifle before desiding which house to use or not use. Thread is on page 74, named “Model 73, Made for 1876 Centennial Expo.” It makes for very interesting reading. Wally, remember this, ALL the auction houses claim in their advertisements to be honest and always aboveboard, and of course looking out for the best interest of their customers. Both Buyers and Sellers I would assume. Gather as much information on the various auction houses as to their integrity and relieability, then choose.

Apache WinkWink

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June 20, 2015 - 4:31 pm
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Yes, but how many firearms are there out there that are worth over six figures (over $1 million)?  Not many…

Even a Colt Walker or Paterson with condition isn’t worth 7 figures.

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2011/10/1836-colt-revolver-sells-for-record-977500-price-at-auction/

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June 20, 2015 - 6:05 pm
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MRCVS;

       As you say, “there aren’t many firearms out there worth over 6 figures”, all of that is true. In this particular case however when we’re talking about what is probably the most historic, important firearm to come out of the Sioux Indian Wars of 1862 – 1891, I would imagine a 6 figure selling number is called for. An auction house, be it American or European that could handle a firearm of this calibre, getting its full value in todays market is what is needed here. Please, look up for yourself the NRA’s Whittington Museum of the West Web Sight. Check out their display that features this Winchester 1866 Carbine. Look at the DVD featuring the Winchester, it’s on the Whittington Web sight. Then tell me 1) Is this worth 6 figures? 2) Which auction house, or perhaps a “Private” sale would you recomend I use to handle it? 3) Wouldn’t you like to be the “Caretaker” (one is only a Caretaker of history, and that only for a period of time) of this very historical weapon, let’s say for the next 50 or so years? I know I’ve been proud to be.

I’m interested in your responce to my questions.

Apache, (Larry N.)ConfusedConfusedConfusedSmileSmile

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June 21, 2015 - 1:27 pm
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Can you post pictures of your 1866?  I searched for it on the Whittington Museum site and could not locate it.

I would think that any national auction house, such as James Julia or Rock Island, would be the way to go.  This is where folks with deep pockets go to, and I would choose the one that offers you the best deal on commissions.  Your firearm will bring the highest price the market will bear at that particular time–e.g., ‘getting full value’, as you say.  As for private sale, maybe go to a prominent gun show, such as the Denver one, may be the route to go.  I have been to the Baltimore Show, and there are some high-priced firearms there, as well.

Believe me, if your firearm is what you say it is, I would more than anything love to be the next ‘caretaker’ of this firearm.  Having said that, I have to be very selective in what I purchase, and, right now, I don’t have the kind of money you would want for your firearm.  Most people don’t.  I am amazed that lot after lot at these national firearms auctions can bring 4, 5, and 6 figures, lot after lot, and no one seems to ever run out of money doing so.  I am employed by other entities, and so my salary is determined by institutional standards, as are my pay raises.  It may BE, that someday, I might be able to make ONE (e.g., an once in a lifetime) purchase, maybe through the sale of excess real estate, etc.  How would I go about doing that?  ‘Maybe’ I might purchase that once-in-a-lifetime firearm from a prominent auction house, but not quite sure I could do that, as I would be well aware that I am paying full price for that firearm, competing against others with deeper pockets than mine.  And, would it be a Winchester?  Probably not.  I would like to own an original Colt Walker, and this would be what I would likely get.  Having said that, where would you find such a firearm?  Most are at these prominent auction houses or through a prominent arms dealer at more-than-retail prices.  So, if I do that someday, I would probably have to go the national auction house route.  Would I be willing to pay full retail value?  Maybe, by that time, I simply won’t care!  If I had to guess, most folks at these national auctions are businessmen, probably usually small businessmen, with successful businesses that generate excess cash.  Why don’t I do this?  Well, most small businesses fail, so probably for every small business-owner bidder at these auctions, there are 5 individuals (competitors) that are barely making ends meet or who have failed.  This individual is there because he is lucky–having been at the right place at the right time, offered a better product at a lesser price, etc.

My method of purchasing firearms tends to be I buy what I like at at least somewhat less than retail prices, sometimes significantly so.  I tend to like pre-1899 Winchesters, Colts, Merwin & Hulberts, Smith & Wessons, and Sharps with a significant amount of original finish left.  These tend to be easy to find at shows, largely because most of what is out there has dulled over time and ‘has patina’.  I tend to look for this stuff at shows, and, realizing that the show I tend to frequent the most, is attended by those setting up on Friday evening and lifetime members of the club on Friday evenings, that if anything was truly a bargain, it would have been bought before I walk through the doors Saturday morning.  I might find a firearm or two that I like (usually this would be about the maximum one would find), that is, I like it aesthetically, and the price isn’t so sky-high that I keep on walking.  I try and get it at a significantly lower price, often do not, might take the seller’s number down, call a few weeks later and see if it is still available, how flexible he is, etc.  Or, I attend local auctions–sometimes, maybe once every year or two, there is something worth bidding on, and, if it doesn’t have an internet bidding option, you might get a bargain.  Sometimes, though, two good old boys in the room bid against each other, and the Winchester 1886 with a 4-digit serial number, restocked with a Kentucky Long Rifle stock, no features, and limited original finish, in .45-90, brings $5,500 before any taxes or buyer’s premiums.  (This is an actual example, and occurred locally).

So, my approach is more a ‘bottom-feeder’ one.  It has to be.  First, you cannot get anything cheaply anymore.  The days of a Winchester 1886 in 90+% condition, even in .33 WCF, are LONG gone!  The average person only has ‘decent’ money to spend every year or so (usually tax refund time).  There is little sense in buying frequently stuff with patina, as in 50 years, it still will look dull and appreciation will be negligible.  It is okay not to get something this time, or the next time, because you can’t agree on price.  Often, you pass up on something and later, something better comes up at a lower price.  There are firearms I would LIKE to own, but there is nothing I HAVE TO HAVE anymore, so this approach alone keeps me from spending too much money on something, and buying better less frequently enables one to have funds for something nicer in the mid-4 figures, vs having wasted it on 3 or 4 guns with ‘patina’, and not having the money for that mid-4 figure firearm when it comes along unexpectedly.

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June 22, 2015 - 3:47 am
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mrcvs;

    I have some photos that were sent to me from the NRA Whittington. I’ll figure out how to send them to you via PM. I’m afraid to use RIA for a number of reasons (if you read their Sellers Contract you’ll understand my concerns.) James Julia is interesting, however certain issues have been raised by RIA. This makes me nervious about J.J. Did you read the article in the Summer ’06 WACA Collector Magazine? I have, and will make copies of the DVD the Whittington sent me featuring the ’66. These will be sent out to “Privates” should I deside to bite the bullet and go the “Private Selling Route”. Of course all my research documents will go along with the Winchester 1866 to the Buyer.

Apache, Larry N.

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June 22, 2015 - 2:10 pm
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Thank you to all for your input and especially to mrcvs for his insight and opinion.  I think I have chosen an auction house I feel will truly look forward to representing this Winchester with the respect and attention it deserves.  I am holding off on stating which one since the paperwork has not been signed and I’ve learned over the years you never know what might happen before a deal has been finalized with signatures on paper.

Jeff

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June 22, 2015 - 4:45 pm
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Jeff and Mrcvs;

      Jeff, the best of luck with your endevor. Please let us know how it works out for you.

       Mrcvs, Good luck and good hunting in your endevor to find your Colt Walker in the condition you would like to have. If you’re successful any time soon please let us all at WACA know.

Apache; Larry N.SmileSmile

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