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November 5, 2014
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If anyone is interested, this one is curious:
https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail/70/2276#detail
SN 413375 is on the serial number list in Chandler’s book as having shipped to HQ 1st Army NY NY in August 1959. Appears to have the typical uncheckered Van Order ‘Sniper’ stock. But what’s up with the pre-war bolt (not just bolt sleeve)? I wonder if somebody (not realizing they had a Van Orden) didn’t swap bolts to make the rifle look more like the arsenal reworks of the pre-war 30-06 standard rifles?
Any thoughts? If someone were interested it would be worth a call to RIA.
Best,
Lou
WACA 9519; Studying Pre-64 Model 70 Winchesters
July 7, 2016
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Thanks Lou! You’ve got a good eye 🙂
I think I’ll take a shot at snagging it!
July 17, 2012
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Good luck, hope you win it. I’ve got a soft spot for the Van Ordens and bought the last one Lou pointed out, now it is your turn.
Regards,
WACA Life Member #6284 - Specializing in Pre-64 Winchester .22 Rimfire
November 5, 2014
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This one’s too funny…
IMHO a documented Van Orden rifle sold to US 1st Army is a GENUINE military M70 Sniper rifle. (Mine was civilian sold so NOT military). Admittedly, the armed forces purchased these for target team use or maybe training, not combat, but…. In this case, it looks like somebody took a GENUINE US military M70 sniper rifle and (in ignorance???) used it as the basis for creating a FAKE US military M70 sniper rifle by replacing the bolt so it would (vaguely) look like one of the arsenal rebuilds that Carlos Hatchcock’s team used in Viet Nam. Would be funny if it weren’t tragic…
From where I stand it would be nice if pre64win.com were able to get ahold of this one for a decent price b/c they could put it back to what it was originally (which I can’t). And they’re honest…
BTW JWA-
You get yours to the range yet? I have not tried firing mine, but hope to get around to it sometime. I do have a newish 20X Lyman STS with an 18K serial number, which as far as I can tell from recent WACA discussions is possibly circa ’50-52 (????). My rifle being a ’53 S/N it’s probably close enough until I find a 25X Lyman STS in that range.
FWIW… I just got ahold of an original set of the paperwork that came with these rifles when shipped (thanks to Justin for the tip!!!). I’m going to scan it and will send to anyone interested. The ‘operating instructions’ and range tables are worth having.
Best, Lou
WACA 9519; Studying Pre-64 Model 70 Winchesters
July 17, 2012
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Louis Luttrell said
BTW JWA-You get yours to the range yet? I have not tried firing mine, but hope to get around to it sometime. I do have a newish 20X Lyman STS with an 18K serial number, which as far as I can tell from recent WACA discussions is possibly circa ’50-52 (????). My rifle being a ’53 S/N it’s probably close enough until I find a 25X Lyman STS in that range.
FWIW… I just got ahold of an original set of the paperwork that came with these rifles when shipped (thanks to Justin for the tip!!!). I’m going to scan it and will send to anyone interested. The ‘operating instructions’ and range tables are worth having.
Best, Lou
Hi Lou,
No range time yet, unfortunately I have been too busy with work this spring. I did get a nice Lyman Super Targetspot for it but after the recent STS discussions I realize it is too early for the rifle as the wood box has the early style latches. I will use it to play with the rifle a bit but will resume the search for another STS to match the rifle vintage.
I would love a scan of your paperwork whenever you get a chance. I will PM you my email address.
Best Regards,
Jeff
WACA Life Member #6284 - Specializing in Pre-64 Winchester .22 Rimfire
February 24, 2014
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There is a Lyman super target 20x with a box on guns international. the lens has been replaced, but you might want to look at it. Ser# of the scope is 8xx4. wasn’t a very good pic of the number. Guns inter. # 100834899
May 24, 2012
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JWA said
Louis Luttrell said
BTW JWA-You get yours to the range yet? I have not tried firing mine, but hope to get around to it sometime. I do have a newish 20X Lyman STS with an 18K serial number, which as far as I can tell from recent WACA discussions is possibly circa ’50-52 (????). My rifle being a ’53 S/N it’s probably close enough until I find a 25X Lyman STS in that range.
FWIW… I just got ahold of an original set of the paperwork that came with these rifles when shipped (thanks to Justin for the tip!!!). I’m going to scan it and will send to anyone interested. The ‘operating instructions’ and range tables are worth having.
Best, Lou
Hi Lou,
No range time yet, unfortunately I have been too busy with work this spring. I did get a nice Lyman Super Targetspot for it but after the recent STS discussions I realize it is too early for the rifle as the wood box has the early style latches. I will use it to play with the rifle a bit but will resume the search for another STS to match the rifle vintage.
I would love a scan of your paperwork whenever you get a chance. I will PM you my email address.
Best Regards,
Jeff
Jeff,
According to the input regarding the STS discussions wooden boxes with the early latches went way beyond early 1950s. Anyway, you could call Ria and ask them what number is on the Lyman scope, and if you do, please let us know too.
James
November 5, 2014
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With thanks to Justin Hale and Tom Tate, I recently picked up a copy of the original Evaluators Ltd paperwork (operating instructions and brochures) that accompanied the Van Orden rifles. This is the only complete set I’ve seen to date (as these are the same originals that were posted on Sniper’s Hide forum a while back):
I’ve scanned all the pages individually (except I didn’t scan all 126 pages of the Western brochure) and will be glad to send them to anyone who wants them. Just send me a PM with an e-mail address. The originals are somewhat frail, so these copies are more useful in any event.
FWIW, this paperwork accompanied one of the “Special Target” (marksman stock) Van Orden rifles, rather than the “Sniper” (uncheckered standard stock) version. But the literature inside is applicable to both.
Best,
Lou
WACA 9519; Studying Pre-64 Model 70 Winchesters
Louis Luttrell said
This one’s too funny…IMHO a documented Van Orden rifle sold to US 1st Army is a GENUINE military M70 Sniper rifle. (Mine was civilian sold so NOT military). Admittedly, the armed forces purchased these for target team use or maybe training, not combat, but…. In this case, it looks like somebody took a GENUINE US military M70 sniper rifle and (in ignorance???) used it as the basis for creating a FAKE US military M70 sniper rifle by replacing the bolt so it would (vaguely) look like one of the arsenal rebuilds that Carlos Hatchcock’s team used in Viet Nam. Would be funny if it weren’t tragic…
From where I stand it would be nice if pre64win.com were able to get ahold of this one for a decent price b/c they could put it back to what it was originally (which I can’t). And they’re honest…
BTW JWA-
You get yours to the range yet? I have not tried firing mine, but hope to get around to it sometime. I do have a newish 20X Lyman STS with an 18K serial number, which as far as I can tell from recent WACA discussions is possibly circa ’50-52 (????). My rifle being a ’53 S/N it’s probably close enough until I find a 25X Lyman STS in that range.
FWIW… I just got ahold of an original set of the paperwork that came with these rifles when shipped (thanks to Justin for the tip!!!). I’m going to scan it and will send to anyone interested. The ‘operating instructions’ and range tables are worth having.
Best, Lou
I have a Van Orden, serial number documented in “Death from Afar” as one shipped to the U.S Army, Philadelphia (1954). My Dad got it in 1963, so I grew up with this gun. It’s outfitted with Redfield Olympic sights, and I’m fortunate enough to have a set of reticles for the sights. I recently picked up a Lyman 10x Super Targetspot, ser. #6180, which I am told is a close match to the rifle, probably early 50’s. I’d love to get a set of paperwork, but that will be long search. Once I have it set-up, I’ll post some pics, thanks ahead for any details on these remarkable rifles!
