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https://www.gunbroker.com/item/843158881
It’s been listed more than once. No takers. Seems a decent piece. Nice chambering and configuration. Where do you suppose the price has to be for it to sell?
British proofs are the problem.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
1873man said
British proofs are the problem.Bob
Kind of like the import marks on M1 carbines and garands, people shy away from them. terry
But at least it’s not a social security number 😉
But seriously, ok, the British proof marks detract. So, what are the opinions as to where this one needs to be priced to sell in the, “current market”?
Not an antique, takedown, maybe some oil applied to the wood at a later date to freshen up the finish, in the current condition in today’s market, I would think it would move in the $4500 range, maybe $4000 if $4500 doesn’t do it.
November 7, 2015
Offline
I was thinking $5000 but I’m not really in step with today’s prices, and I like the gun. Bidding will be slow at almost any price as this rifle is in a segment of the market that seems pretty sluggish these days.
Mike
Online
I really like this gun. An octogon barrel takedown seems hard to come by and it’s in a good caliber with great condition. I have one already in the same condition, but it’s a 40-82 and made in 1894, but has no added proofs. It was passed down to me from my dad’s collection.
So, for some collectors, the added proofs are a detraction. Other’s might not care. Seems to me, I’ve seen some Winchesters for sale where supposedly the British proofs are a bonus. But that might have just been hype from a seller.
How do others feel about the British proofs?
steve004 said
So, for some collectors, the added proofs are a detraction. Other’s might not care. Seems to me, I’ve seen some Winchesters for sale where supposedly the British proofs are a bonus. But that might have just been hype from a seller.How do others feel about the British proofs?
British proofs don’t add value to an old west gun even if it didn’t go west. Now if you collect guns that went to England, India or Africa it may be your gun. It does seem a bit high priced. In picture 14 take a look at the swirls on the magazine tube. If you keep the area under the band clean and lubed it will not cause these. Always clean these very cautiously before use.
We,ve already had that discussion about British proof marks affecting the value of a gun, and like I said before I find it enthralling that a foreign sportsman or gov’t would think highly enough of a Winchester, over their own products, to have it imported for use etc. , then for that gun to find it’s way back to the U.S. is amazing, to Me it’s more desireable than the anonymity of just another old “western” gun, at least We know a little something about this one. I just purchased back a model ’66 s.r.c. that I owned before ‘at a increased price, because I found out some of the history on the gun thanks to this forum. It has a cartouche in the stock that I found out , belongs to the Niger Coast Protectorate, a British colony, in the 1880’s-’90’s but the gun has no British proofs. This gun found it’s way back to Texas and then to Ontario (Me), I find this amazing and did pay a premium to get it back. One can only guess at the history of a piece like that and I find this intriguing .
W.A.C.A. life member, Marlin Collectors Assn. charter and life member, C,S.S.A. member and general gun nut.
Henry Mero said
We,ve already had that discussion about British proof marks affecting the value of a gun, and like I said before I find it enthralling that a foreign sportsman or gov’t would think highly enough of a Winchester, over their own products, to have it imported for use etc. , then for that gun to find it’s way back to the U.S. is amazing, to Me it’s more desireable than the anonymity of just another old “western” gun, at least We know a little something about this one.
Of course it adds an interesting historical dimension to a gun that’s traveled back & forth across the world that way, & should, theoretically, add to, not detract from, value, but don’t talk logic when discussing collector values! They are entirely arbitrary!
Henry Mero said
We,ve already had that discussion about British proof marks affecting the value of a gun, and like I said before I find it enthralling that a foreign sportsman or gov’t would think highly enough of a Winchester, over their own products, to have it imported for use etc. , then for that gun to find it’s way back to the U.S. is amazing, to Me it’s more desireable than the anonymity of just another old “western” gun, at least We know a little something about this one. I just purchased back a model ’66 s.r.c. that I owned before ‘at a increased price, because I found out some of the history on the gun thanks to this forum. It has a cartouche in the stock that I found out , belongs to the Niger Coast Protectorate, a British colony, in the 1880’s-’90’s but the gun has no British proofs. This gun found it’s way back to Texas and then to Ontario (Me), I find this amazing and did pay a premium to get it back. One can only guess at the history of a piece like that and I find this intriguing .
Henry, in an attempt to determine the premium you paid to get the rifle back, what percentage of increase in value did the trail of this piece cost you over what you had sold it for in the past? Such information might help us better estimate the value of the rifle being discussed. Right now we have a possible difference of 25% w/o the British proofs rarity factor being addressed more specifically than it is…less the consideration that in such a case, the rarity factor is totally meaningless to some collectors, based on the lack of geographical appeal it has to some of our more knowledgeable and dedicated American collectors.
James
O K, well I bought that ’66 back in 2012 from Collectors Firearms, Texas, along with a nice ’66 rifle and a pretty good Henry. I paid $9,000.00 U.S. for the s.r.c. as it’s part of the package. At the time the U.S./ Canadian $ was about par, today that $9,000.00 U.S. would be about $13,000.00 Cdn. I sold the gun for $9,000.00 U.S. back in 2014 about $10500.00 Cdn. at the time. I just bought it back (trade involved), for $14,000.00 Cdn. Or about $10,500.00 U.S. Now taking into consideration the value of these guns have declined a little the past few Years and watching various gun sale and dealer sites a compareable gun (without the cartouche), would probably sell in the $8,000.00 – $9,000.00 U.S. range.( I sure do wish We had a common Currency) So anyway at the end of the day I figure I paid a 15% premium for it because it appealed to Me now knowing the off shore history and the significance of it finding it’s way back to North America. I hope this makes some sense to You, it does to Me.
W.A.C.A. life member, Marlin Collectors Assn. charter and life member, C,S.S.A. member and general gun nut.
Henry Mero said
O K, well I bought that ’66 back in 2012 from Collectors Firearms, Texas, along with a nice ’66 rifle and a pretty good Henry. I paid $9,000.00 U.S. for the s.r.c. as it’s part of the package. At the time the U.S./ Canadian $ was about par, today that $9,000.00 U.S. would be about $13,000.00 Cdn. I sold the gun for $9,000.00 U.S. back in 2014 about $10500.00 Cdn. at the time. I just bought it back (trade involved), for $14,000.00 Cdn. Or about $10,500.00 U.S. Now taking into consideration the value of these guns have declined a little the past few Years and watching various gun sale and dealer sites a compareable gun (without the cartouche), would probably sell in the $8,000.00 – $9,000.00 U.S. range.( I sure do wish We had a common Currency) So anyway at the end of the day I figure I paid a 15% premium for it because it appealed to Me now knowing the off shore history and the significance of it finding it’s way back to North America. I hope this makes some sense to You, it does to Me.
Thank you for the detailed reply. I do not own any rifles that have British proof marks, but I did buy a Colt derringer in .41 caliber that has them, and I can’t say that I paid a premium for it or not. Anyway, a 15% premium for the rarity factor alone makes sense to me.
James
jwm94 said
Thank you for the detailed reply. I do not own any rifles that have British proof marks, but I did buy a Colt derringer in .41 caliber that has them, and I can’t say that I paid a premium for it or not. Anyway, a 15% premium for the rarity factor alone makes sense to me.
James
I appreciated reading this tale as well.
British proof marks only matter to those that think it matters. Whether the gun went to England or any other English commonwealth territory, only adds color to the pedigree of that gun. If your gun was mint, you may not want the proof marks on it, but this gun is not mint and the proof marks have little bearing on its value compared to the overall condition of the gun and the rarity of it being a takedown.
As far as being worth $5900.00, it won’t come into that value for a few years to come. Where the gun letters to and how that compares to the gun itself will make a difference in the value.
I just bought a Colt Lightning 50-95 Express and it was shipped to Bombay, India. Is it worth more than if it was shipped to Kansas City? Maybe, maybe not, but I find it more interesting than Kansas City and I place more value on it because of that. Someone else may think differently, that is what makes collecting these old guns interesting.
This is a cool old gun, and rare to boot. I have it pictured with another large frame Lightning i have, the 50 is the near gun…
Shrapnel said
British proof marks only matter to those that think it matters. Whether the gun went to England or any other English commonwealth territory, only adds color to the pedigree of that gun. If your gun was mint, you may not want the proof marks on it, but this gun is not mint and the proof marks have little bearing on its value compared to the overall condition of the gun and the rarity of it being a takedown.As far as being worth $5900.00, it won’t come into that value for a few years to come. Where the gun letters to and how that compares to the gun itself will make a difference in the value.
I just bought a Colt Lightning 50-95 Express and it was shipped to Bombay, India. Is it worth more than if it was shipped to Kansas City? Maybe, maybe not, but I find it more interesting than Kansas City and I place more value on it because of that. Someone else may think differently, that is what makes collecting these old guns interesting.
This is a cool old gun, and rare to boot. I have it pictured with another large frame Lightning i have, the 50 is the near gun…
Kirk – I think your thoughts on the proof marks are in line with what most of us are thinking – whether they add, detract or don’t matter – it depends on the collector. I have a different perspective on your comment: “As far as being worth $5900.00, it won’t come into that value for a few years to come.” I’m more with the group that sees interest in old things (old guns, furniture, Model T cars, etc.) as rapidly dropping. The old collectors are dying off and there are few replacements. Young people don’t want this old stuff and many don’t have the money for it anyway. I want to believe I’m wrong about this. One of the reasons I post a comment like this is it heartens me to have others disagree and provide examples of why I am wrong.
Now – that .50-95 Express rifle. Surely that is a one-of-a-kind piece. Maybe they made about two dozen .50-95’s? And I would suspect this is the only one ordered with a 19 inch barrel. These Colt pumps are great pieces. I have one in .40-60 (i.e. .40-65) and it is one slick shooter. I’ve had a few different friends and family members shoot it and they are awe struck over how fast you can shoot it and empty the magazine. I’ve always pined for a .50-95 and have seen about 7 for sale over the past 40+ years. Never connected on one. I’m glad you did – but I’m not surprised 🙂 Sort of like I’ve never connected on Whitney-Kennedy SRC – but you have.
Back to your .50-95 – I love the metal wear. That piece has been to India, obviously got hunted and has an amazing story to tell.
Thanks for posting.
steve004 said
Kirk – I think your thoughts on the proof marks are in line with what most of us are thinking – whether they add, detract or don’t matter – it depends on the collector. I have a different perspective on your comment: “As far as being worth $5900.00, it won’t come into that value for a few years to come.” I’m more with the group that sees interest in old things (old guns, furniture, Model T cars, etc.) as rapidly dropping. The old collectors are dying off and there are few replacements. Young people don’t want this old stuff and many don’t have the money for it anyway. I want to believe I’m wrong about this. One of the reasons I post a comment like this is it heartens me to have others disagree and provide examples of why I am wrong.
Now – that .50-95 Express rifle. Surely that is a one-of-a-kind piece. Maybe they made about two dozen .50-95’s? And I would suspect this is the only one ordered with a 19 inch barrel. These Colt pumps are great pieces. I have one in .40-60 (i.e. .40-65) and it is one slick shooter. I’ve had a few different friends and family members shoot it and they are awe struck over how fast you can shoot it and empty the magazine. I’ve always pined for a .50-95 and have seen about 7 for sale over the past 40+ years. Never connected on one. I’m glad you did – but I’m not surprised 🙂 Sort of like I’ve never connected on Whitney-Kennedy SRC – but you have.
Back to your .50-95 – I love the metal wear. That piece has been to India, obviously got hunted and has an amazing story to tell.
Thanks for posting.
Whitney-Kennedy SRC?! Now that caught my attention. I had the oipportunity a few years ago to bid on one on GB, but didn’t, and I do regret it, bigtime!
Pictures, please!!!! 
James
jwm94 said
Whitney-Kennedy SRC?! Now that caught my attention. I had the oipportunity a few years ago to bid on one on GB, but didn’t, and I do regret it, bigtime!
Pictures, please!!!!
James
I actually have 2 Whitney Kennedy SRC, 1 in 44-40 in high condition and another in good condition in 45-60. They are great guns and few are seen. I have a couple other Whitney Kennedys as well, one is an experimental rifle in 45-60. It has a Springfield style rear sight and double set trigger. It too is in great condition.
The first picture is the Experimental Whitney Kennedy and a Winchester 1873 SRC in 38-40, the second picture has the 2 SRC 3 and 4 from the right…
steve004 said
Back to your .50-95 – I love the metal wear. That piece has been to India, obviously got hunted and has an amazing story to tell.
Tiger hunting would be pretty amazing, & I can’t immediately think of any other Indian game for which it would be better suited. I’d sure rather have 5 or 6 “lightening” shots than two from a double-rifle. And for any gun carried in a tropical climate, this one is in great condition.
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