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Big Larry said
That’s the serial number. #1036. Things were better at Parsons when the old man was alive. Big Larry
Jeez, I’d think that number was reached the first year, if not six months, of production in ’37, rather than ’39. If that’s right, can’t understand how the 10,000 range was reached in only another couple of years, unless there were large, unused, gaps in the numbering sequence; but doing that makes no sense.
The serial numbering on the Lyman STS scopes is interesting. With Larry’s confirmation of his SN 1036 being built 4-29-39 and Seewin’s comment about the one on the Model 52 possibly being made in late 1940, I took another look at mine. Initially I had said that the SN was 8187, but taking another look at it, the SN is 2187. tiny number and old eyes make reading these things difficult. That said, if both Larry and Seewin are on target, then my number 2187 looks to have been made about mid-1940.
James
jwm94 said
The serial numbering on the Lyman STS scopes is interesting. With Larry’s confirmation of his SN 1036 being built 4-29-39 and Seewin’s comment about the one on the Model 52 possibly being made in late 1940, I took another look at mine. Initially I had said that the SN was 8187, but taking another look at it, the SN is 2187. tiny number and old eyes make reading these things difficult. That said, if both Larry and Seewin are on target, then my number 2187 looks to have been made about mid-1940.James
Then I’m baffled that my 10,000 range scope can be in a box dated 1941–makes me think the scope is not original to that box, which is a considerable disappointment.
Also a disappointment that the serial records are now unavailable, though I believe they’re still in the possession of Gil Parson’s widow. Dealer friend of mine who’d done a lot of business with Parsons told me he tried to buy them a while back, but for unknown reasons she was not interested in selling them. Seems rather irresponsible for Lyman to have sold them in the first place, and apparently no copies were retained.
November 5, 2014
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Hi Y’all-
Since this thread has resurfaced, some might be interested in a GB lot that lund2075 just pointed out to me:
http://www.gunbroker.com/item/614828388
SN 338279 is on the list of Van Orden rifles published in Chandler, reported as sold to the US Army, Philadelphia, PA. Of course I think this particular rifle has been reblued and fit with a non-factory custom stock. But it was orignally a Van Orden Sniper.
Funny where these things will turn up!!!
Best,
Lou
WACA 9519; Studying Pre-64 Model 70 Winchesters
Has anyone attempted to reach Peter Senich for info on the Van Ordens? I got all my documentation from him. Big Larry
Big Larry said
Has anyone attempted to reach Peter Senich for info on the Van Ordens? I got all my documentation from him. Big Larry
I’ve been told he has passed away. I don’t know it for sure, but several people who have claimed to be his friends have told me that.
I know the Van Orden serials are in Chandlers 1st book and I believe his 2nd book had a few more.
Clarence: I would not be too quick to judge whether or not your scope is original to the box, especially since no one seems to know what the manufacturing process was for these scopes at this time, at least not to my knowledge. For example, is it possible that blank tubes for the earlier target scopes were cut to a length that might work for the longer STS? Then, what was the marking process? So, although I would not dismiss what appears to be the obvious at this time, it would be far less than professional for someone to state that your scope is not original to the box with such limited information. The question of value and what such a package might bring on the market one way or the other is an altogether different story, but there should not be too much of a difference as I see it, but then I don’t deal in such packages either.
Big Larry: Contacting Senich about these scopes seems like a very good idea!
JWA: In one of Senich’s books, he shows a picture of STS SN 17515 which dates to circa 1949. Taking this information into account and dividing by 13, comes to about 1347 scopes produced on average each year. Using this figure for your 1952 Van Orden rifle for another three years and you’re at about SN 21500.
steven norton said
I’ve been told he has passed away. I don’t know it for sure, but several people who have claimed to be his friends have told me that.
I know the Van Orden serials are in Chandlers 1st book and I believe his 2nd book had a few more.
I used to have a great relationship with Peter. At the time, I had a nice collection of US Sniper rifles. All were documented, even my M1903A1/Unertl USMC. Gave my documented M1-C Garand to a friend and sold all the rest.
Anyone here know for sure about Mr. Senich? He is/was a great guy. Thanks, Big Larry
Big Larry said
I used to have a great relationship with Peter. At the time, I had a nice collection of US Sniper rifles. All were documented, even my M1903A1/Unertl USMC. Gave my documented M1-C Garand to a friend and sold all the rest.
Anyone here know for sure about Mr. Senich? He is/was a great guy. Thanks, Big Larry
I did a google search and there was a Peter R. Senich who passed in 2004. It said he was born in 1938. So about 66. And on Amazon where you can buy his books, it says the “Late Peter R. Senich.”
The guys who had told me he had passed, are some very big name collectors too, so I’m sorry to say, I would imagine it’s true. 🙁
jwm94 said
JWA: In one of Senich’s books, he shows a picture of STS SN 17515 which dates to circa 1949. Taking this information into account and dividing by 13, comes to about 1347 scopes produced on average each year. Using this figure for your 1952 Van Orden rifle for another three years and you’re at about SN 21500.
Thanks!
That is very helpful. I am glad my question sparked all the comments about the STS numbers/dates, it has been interesting reading.
Best Regards,
WACA Life Member #6284 - Specializing in Pre-64 Winchester .22 Rimfire
I believe I have a 1954 Van Orden Sniper, serial number 337031, built for the 1955 National Match. I have documentation tracing it back to James B. Millette. I believe the rifle was purchased through the Fort Meade marksmanship team.
That number show’s as being a Van Orden, and shipped to the Army depot in Phil. PA.
Steve
November 5, 2014
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Hi pjpinsak-
Congrats. That S/N is ‘on the list’ from Evaluators Limited. Shipped to U.S. Army depot in Philadelphia. Can you post a pic? I’m curious about the stock style, sights, etc.
Also, send me a PM with a preferred e-mail address (if different from above) if you would like a pdf scanned copy of the Evaluators Limited literature that came with these rifles (and don’t have it already). I have not found a way to attach a pdf file to a PM reply on this site even though it says it can host them. I have the file on my computer at work and can send it along.
Best,
Lou
WACA 9519; Studying Pre-64 Model 70 Winchesters
I found my paperwork on my Van Orden. It is on a list of those sent to the 1954 NM’s. Rifle is shown with a 24X late Fecker scope. Big Larry
November 5, 2014
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I’m attaching the lower resolution jpeg copies of the Evaluators Limited operating instructions. The first image is of the writing on the outside of the envelope that housed the rest of the paperwork:
Note that the “special target” was the version with a marksman stock while the “sniper” was the one with the smooth special dimension standard style stock. There were also several product brochures inside the envelope. Both variations of M70 catalog number G7044C.
WACA 9519; Studying Pre-64 Model 70 Winchesters
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