jsgwoodsman said

mrcvs said

antler1 said

So let me get this straight! You negotiated a 15 to 20K colt DOWN to 5k instead of purchasing at an original asking price. And you are worried about how dealers price their guns for sale 

I should also mention that the purchaser, who will not be named, is a member of several of these forums.  And he negotiated down from what I did, and he had no qualms about doing so.  And so I’m in the wrong?

I contacted him about purchasing this revolver and was basically told it will be coming up for sale at RIA sooner or later.  No bargains there.

  

mrcvs 

 

I understand how you missing out on landing that revolver would bother you, it would bother me and I told you as much with a courteous apology. But I’m surprised you’re still bringing it up a YEAR later.

I still have it. I did strike a deal with the guy. One that you in no way negotiated for me. 

Since I’m not a pistol or a Colt collector, and this niche of Colt revolver collecting is WAY outside of my knowledge base, I reached out to people on the Colt forum for advice. That’s when I learned about the Kopec authentication process. I didn’t ask for valuation. And being a novice in the market and value of these particular guns, I truly didn’t and still don’t “know” what it is worth. I looked at comparables and gave myself a potential buffer for error and lack of knowledge. 

I then offered the seller two offers, one pending the gun being lettered authentic w/ a gold seal from John Kopec (paid by me regardless of a deal struck), the other with me taking the chance on it as unlettered and unauthenticated. You know this because I have said as much to you in writing. 

The above offer was solely based on a couple poor photos he sent me and BEFORE I’d seen the gun in person. I assumed there would be issues with the originality, condition, and function of the revolver that I may not realize, as would be the norm for any firearm this old, especially a Cavalry revolver.

Once I saw the gun in person, I felt very confident that it was original finish and could see all matching numbered parts. 

That gave me the confidence to increase my initial “un-lettered” offer on a slightly lesser gamble (but a gamble just the same) after seeing the gun in hand. Although still not positive my intuition was correct. And knowing/gambling that if I was missing something I very well might be overpaying – by thousands. 

He still was hesitant to let it go (even at the increased offer) and it took my realizing he was motivated by cash AND trade (guns…plural – not ski equipment) more so than just cash, to make the deal happen. That, and the fact that I had a gun he very much wanted. 

So NO, I didn’t pay less than you offered nor did I trade ski equipment, even if that’s what he told you. 

I did get an auction estimate on the revolver (as I’ve previously mentioned to you) and it was considerable higher than your estimate. As we discussed, I cited how hard that (the potential high auction sale price) would be to turn down IF I hypothetically was to sell the revolver – which I have yet to do. I never said I was selling this one through them. I mentioned that I was CONSIDERING consigning other guns, but never said I was sending this one. 

Is taking my chances at auction the same as a cash in hand offer? Nope. Maybe I’ll accept a local or face to face offer that’s somewhere in the middle. Maybe I’ll continue keeping the revolver as I’ve done this far. 

I get how the auction game works. And it would ultimately be me that decides if going that route makes sense for me. 

I bought this revolver because I collect guns and saw it as an opportunity of investment. 

Will I keep it for another half century? Maybe. Will I sell it tomorrow? Maybe. Will my heirs end up with it and sell it to someone such as yourself for $5k, or $500? Nope.

I have bought guns at auction (even the big houses) and scored tremendous deals. I’ve also seen items that were very similar to those in my collection sell for exponentially more than I feel I could get for my similar item IF sold anywhere but a big auction house. And that’s after calculating the fees. But most often I see auction prices that seem way over what the items value is… and that tells me a seller of an item trying to maximize his investment ought to at least crunch some numbers with consideration to consigning.

I also have a network of collector friends that I know personally and have and hope to continue to buy, sell, and trade with them. ALWAYS at a lower value than what’s seen or what could be attained at a big auction house (yes, even after fees). 

But, much in the way that you’d be happy to buy a $20k (or significantly more) revolver for $5k, I’m not unwilling to consider that margin on a sale – even if it means the only way to attain that margin is at auction vs. selling to a fellow collector. 

If you still feel the need after a year to vent about a missed “deal” that you thought you’d negotiated –  on public forums – well, it’s a free country (or it used to be anyway). IF your venting includes the need to bend the truth in regards to conversations I’m involved in… I’ll clear the air. 

But by all means, continue announcing your willingness and eagerness to take financial advantage of people while also complaining about auction house practices and prices. 

I suppose that’s all I felt the need to say. 

And for anyone that stuck with me – here’s a non Winchester pic: 

  

All I know is the seller made it sound like we had a deal.  He never told me he was playing the field.  And he told me that the motivating factors were a trade with ski equipment involved and some cash, and that was a better deal for him, and he was more inclined to sell it locally.  But never told me that, nor did he say he wanted to sell it locally, nor did he even ask if I wanted to pick it up if shipping it was a concern.

All I know is what this seller told me.  He proved himself to be dishonest, at least to me, and so what he told me and what he actually negotiated might be miles apart, for all I know.