Log In
July 9, 2017
Offline
Good afternoon gentlemen,
I have just joined and am happy to be here. I have an affinity for older Winchesters and one day will have the one I have long sought (long octagon barrelled Winchester Model 94 in 25-35).
I am here now however seeking information regarding Winchester Model 1873’s. I work part time at an FFL in Eastern Washington state. We sometimes receive in trade or otherwise firearms that won’t sell locally. I am the Gun Broker guy for the shop and I sell on Gun Broker those items we have trouble selling locally. Having said all that, we have very nice elderly, regular customer who is selling part of his Winchester collection. Specifically his Winchester 1873’s. And this is where I need help properly identifying some of the six 1873’s he recently brought in.
I have photos, but can say this, four of them are .44 WCF. One is .32-20 & one .22 short.
One of the .44 WCF’s is an 1873 musket with what looks like an original tang peep sight and hooded front sight. The owner says it was purchased by him from a gentleman in Canada. I can provide serial numbers for all or pictures if seeking help identifying these rifles here is acceptable.
Regards,
Loren
May 2, 2009
Offline
Post some good pictures and we can help you identify them.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
July 9, 2017
Offline
Thank you Bob, I will get some up soon. I really enjoy the reseach like this and learning. First up is the musket. First question, is the tang sight and hooded front legit for the military musket? If my photos are too big, do I need to size them?
Loren
July 9, 2017
Offline
July 9, 2017
Offline
More of the musket:
https://imageshack.com/i/pnfgfIbWj
https://imageshack.com/i/pmUMbqVNj
https://imageshack.com/i/poBOxfi8j
https://imageshack.com/i/pm8VrUhFj
I believe I have read that the Canadian military used, or at least purchased, some Winchester 1873 muskets. If this is so, does anyone know if they fell within a certain serial number range?
Loren
May 2, 2009
Offline
Loren,
The proofmarks on the receiver and barrel are English proofs specifically London
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
July 9, 2017
Offline
1873man said
Loren,The proofmarks on the receiver and barrel are English proofs specifically London
Bob
Hey Bob,
That’s very interesting. English proofs would infer what then? It was exported to the U.K. for private purchase?
Loren
May 2, 2009
Offline
Loren,
I would say a records check could tell you if the gun was a part of a bigger order. Guns were sent all over the world to the different English empires but they first had to be proofed by them since the Americans didn’t know how to make guns. The only thing I know for sure is that a gun with foreign proof marks are not worth as much as non proofed guns when sold in this country. What is the serial number?
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
July 9, 2017
Offline
1873man said
Loren,
What is the serial number?
Bob
114XXXA
Apparently born in 1883, my research says. 
Loren
May 2, 2009
Offline
Loren,
I checked my research and there was not a big shipment of muskets near that serial number. I have 114494 and 114851 and all of them around them are rifles.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
July 9, 2017
Offline
Strange. What about the hooded front sight and tang peep sight? Is that, in any way, original? Were the sights available as an option? Were the muskets sold to the general public in 1883?
Loren
May 2, 2009
Offline
The tangs of the muskets were drilled and tapped for a tang sight and if asked Winchester would put one on as well as the front sight which looks dovetailed in. Winchester would do anything if you paid them to do it. That said I have never seen a tang sight installed on a musket that I recall and have never seen a dovetailed front sight on a musket. A records check would be in order to see if it a special order musket or someones aftermarket mod. If the sights show up, it will increase the value of the gun and if not, the front sight will hurt the value.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
July 9, 2017
Offline
Bob,
How do I go about getting a “records check”?
Regards,
Loren
May 2, 2009
Offline
Loren,
The Cody Firearms Museum has the Winchester records for many of the guns. Some records like the 94’s are not complete but the 73’s are complete. I will check on the musket tomorrow but if you are going to be doing a lot of Winchesters it a real asset to be able to call and find our if the gun is still in the original configuration. The Museum has a membership that starts at $150 a year. Check the link below. Normal Muskets will only say the Caliber and say its a musket then a date it entered the warehouse and was shipped. It can have the date the serial number was applied too if available. Then it will list a order number but most of the time they don’t look to see if that order number shows up on more guns near by. There are muskets that do list special feature like engraving, platings, saber bayonets etc. but here we are looking for the sights.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
July 9, 2017
Offline
Here are some photos one of the other Winchester 1873’s. This one has a 24″ octagon barrel and is chambered in .22 Short.
https://imageshack.com/i/pmN7sryhj
https://imageshack.com/i/poSuoHYOj
https://imageshack.com/i/pmVJJkaYj
https://imageshack.com/i/po43GwD9j
https://imageshack.com/i/pok1vllwj
https://imageshack.com/i/pmIVrOpQj
https://imageshack.com/i/poJ5KeHcj
https://imageshack.com/i/poKmbFkqj
Comments, constructive and otherwise are welcome. Of the lot, this one is my favorite.
Loren
November 2, 2009
Offline
Well, here’s my two cents worth. My guess is that this particular musket was part of our “lend lease” program with England, before we got involved in WW2. I have seen a number of old antique guns that were sent to the British, who at that time were literally fighting for there lives against Nazi Germany. I know of an 1886 carbine in .45-90, a Bullard deluxe in .50-105 and Meacham Sharps in .45-70. All three have British import inspection proof marks, along with cartridge and caliber specs stamped on the barrels.
July 9, 2017
Offline
Next up will be the Winchester 1873 Saddle Ring carbine. .44 WCF and a 20″ barrel.
https://imageshack.com/i/po1oBtXnj
https://imageshack.com/i/pmkuOgyDj
https://imageshack.com/i/pmmd5mXLj
https://imageshack.com/i/po1JOBbsj
https://imageshack.com/i/poOkOYMsj
https://imageshack.com/i/pmhIhHx9j
https://imageshack.com/i/pm0NkD6Kj
https://imageshack.com/i/pmKsGNO5j
https://imageshack.com/i/pmLWgVPLj
Loren
May 2, 2009
Offline
Loren,
22’s are notorious for bad bores since they are small and most people didn’t have rods small enough to fit in them so if you have a good bore it rare. The only thing I can see that catches my eye is the barrel looks like it has more blue than the rest of the gun.
The 44 carbine looks like a standard carbine. The carved initials in the stock do happen. Some collectors will say it adds character and it will turn off others. One thing that will boost the carbine is if you had the story behind the Initials. The rear sight is a later sight style with the U notch, it should have the V notch.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
July 9, 2017
Offline
Bob,
Yes, regrettably, of the few 1873’s from these six I have checked so far, none of the bores are pristine, by any stretch. I am to go by the shop at noon for a bit, perhaps I can check the rest when I do. Next up for photos is going to be an 1873 with a round barrel and what I am told is a “button” magazine? At least that is what I thought he said. It is in caliber .44 WCF. Waiting in the wings is an 1873 in caliber .32-20. I am told it was a custom order, as it has a much longer octagonal barrel. I’ll try to get more of these photos up tonight.
Loren
July 9, 2017
Offline
I checked the bore on all six. All show some degree of wear and some minor pitting. Except for the musket. The muskets bore looks very, very nice and shiny with sharp lands and grooves. Remarkable. The .32-20’s bore is pretty good too, but nowhere near the musket.
Loren
