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PackerBacker said
kevin,
welcome to the forum. I am a relatively new comer to the forum as well; joined about nine months ago. I have done all the things that the guys previously have said not to do but have had a very good time doing it.
There is another list of things to look for also written by Bert on the forum under Winchester Rifles. I would highly recommend that you read it, print it out, and put into your pocket prior to going to look at any guns. I try to do that all the time now and it gives me a way to get back to basics especially when I see something I want.
I got into this by going to a couple of auctions for no specific reason and then deciding I liked a couple of guns and then coming out as the high bidder on some. For no specific reason, I bought an 1894 rifle with an octagon barrel, a full magazine in a 38-55 caliber in pretty good shape. it was at the end of the auction and the stock had a crack in it that was glued but I got it for a couple of hundred bucks and thought I was a genius.
Anyway, it took off from there. I bought a couple of junkers so that I could learn more about how they work without worrying about damaging them. I bought an 1873 carbine that had a broken hammer spring and took it home just to see how it worked. this is when I joined the organization because I had no idea what I was doing. I asked a couple of questions on the forum and then took the whole gun apart and got it to work again. in taking it apart I found out that it was a first model 1873 and had all matching assembly numbers in the right places. this is when I went and bought a copy of the Madis book and started reading and finally started to get a feel for what I had gotten into.
Anyway, we continue to progress and start to become more discerning and discriminating in what you will buy and what you wont. I find gun shows to be very frustrating for the most part and prefer the auction environment to find potential new guns. I like having a wide variety to view at one time, but would find it difficult to bid on a gun that I cant put my hands on. I believe now that all the warnings about quality and original condition are true. I was at an auction this weekend where an 1873 that was obviously reblued was touted as original finish and the selling price confirms that a number of people believed it. the gun was in pretty good shape but still was reblued and I feel that the auction house is very reputable. however, it is always buyer beware.
I am looking forward to attending the annual meeting in cody this summer and interacting with the other members and getting some feedback and more education on how to better evaluate potential stock. I can see now where you have to get a core of experts that you trust to help you upgrade your stock and get you the value that I am sure you are looking for, and I believe the people on this forum is a good place to start that process. I also agree on joining the Cody Firearms Museum and participating in searches and letters on the guns you buy. I agree with Bob that I think there is some additional value when you can get a gun that letters.
Welcome once again, and if you live anywhere near Houston Texas I would be happy to go look at some guns with you anytime.
Regards,
I have printed Burt’s list and will refer to it often. There’s been so much good information shared here over the last 24 hours. I’m sure I will eventually meet some of you at a show or auction down the road.
Winchester Model 1873 44-40 circa 1886
wolfbait said
Decide how you define good quality. In the past I bought high finish guns. The more I looked at those guns, the more I thought “This gun looks like it spent it’s life in a closet”. I since have become more pleased with well used, all original guns. They talk to me. They did something in their lifetime. I look at my well used, well cared for, old guns and think “what adventures have you been involved in?” They have that been there, done that ambience. Antique guns showing honest wear have the DNA of previous owners who used that gun in the gravest extreme, and did not posses it as a mere collectible or show piece. Antique guns are artifacts of history. When they have the appearance of lots of honest use they have a character that a closet gun does not possess. Needless to say, these old guns are more than just objects to me. They are tangible history we can hold in our hands. I want guns that look like they helped tame the Wild West.
I definitely see where you are coming from. As I look through the old Winchesters on the dealer sites I’ve found myself thinking how great it would be if these vintage rifles could share their pasts. I can’t even imagine what some of these rifles and their owners have been through over the years.
I do prefer pieces that show they’ve been around awhile and been there and done that opposed to shiny highly finished examples. However, I like as uniform a patina/finish as possible, no wood chips and/or cracks and as original as possible and everything in working order.
Winchester Model 1873 44-40 circa 1886
Kevin Jones said
wolfbait said
Decide how you define good quality. In the past I bought high finish guns. The more I looked at those guns, the more I thought “This gun looks like it spent it’s life in a closet”. I since have become more pleased with well used, all original guns. They talk to me. They did something in their lifetime. I look at my well used, well cared for, old guns and think “what adventures have you been involved in?” They have that been there, done that ambience. Antique guns showing honest wear have the DNA of previous owners who used that gun in the gravest extreme, and did not posses it as a mere collectible or show piece. Antique guns are artifacts of history. When they have the appearance of lots of honest use they have a character that a closet gun does not possess. Needless to say, these old guns are more than just objects to me. They are tangible history we can hold in our hands. I want guns that look like they helped tame the Wild West.I definitely see where you are coming from. As I look through the old Winchesters on the dealer sites I’ve found myself thinking how great it would be if these vintage rifles could share their pasts. I can’t even imagine what some of these rifles and their owners have been through over the years.
I do prefer pieces that show they’ve been around awhile and been there and done that opposed to shiny highly finished examples. However, I like as uniform a patina/finish as possible, no wood chips and/or cracks and as original as possible and everything in working order.
I agree, no chips or cracks in the wood and an even patina. No flaws, just honest wear. I look at those antique Winchesters and think about the generations of people who owned them. Used them for protection in wild times, shot game to feed their families. Those previous owners on the Frontier are long gone, but I can hold that same gun in my hands as it passes through time.
These are all good posts. When I started around 35 years ago, my focus was on short barreled guns. I passed on buying a flat side ’66 carbine and a ’94 with an extra long barrel because I had “blinders” on. I regret it to this day.
Walter
Kevin,
Another good way to find good guns is to make friends with collectors once they get to know you they might let you in their gun room. Ask question and hopefully he will teach you a little about them. If you see one you like, tell him that if he ever decides to sell to keep you in mind. A collector is usually a little hesitant to buy guns for another collector since he is worried he may get stuck with it if you decide you don’t like it. What he might think is a neat gun might not be once you see it. I have to see a gun in person before it trips my trigger. A dealer on the other hand will buy a gun if he thinks a client might like it but he buys it at a price he can’t get hurt if you don’t take it and he has to carry it for a while.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
And remember, don’t let other collectors try to talk you into what you should or should not enjoy collecting. This is your hobby, and you have the right to spend your money as you see fit, and enjoy whatever brings you pleasure. Everyone has different tastes in collecting, and everyone should respect other collectors choices in their decisions. I was at a gun show inspecting an exhibitors collection of Rusty Relics. I found them interesting, and they were the exhibitors passion. Two guys walked by, looked at the Rusty Relics and said within earshot “that guy’s crazy collecting that junk”. I made a point of complimenting the exhibitor on his interesting display. Collecting firearms is a wonderful diversion from life’s everyday trials and tribulations. It’s your hobby, decide what you personally enjoy, study and research all of your options, and have fun.
1873man said
Kevin,
Another good way to find good guns is to make friends with collectors once they get to know you they might let you in their gun room. Ask question and hopefully he will teach you a little about them. If you see one you like, tell him that if he ever decides to sell to keep you in mind. A collector is usually a little hesitant to buy guns for another collector since he is worried he may get stuck with it if you decide you don’t like it. What he might think is a neat gun might not be once you see it. I have to see a gun in person before it trips my trigger. A dealer on the other hand will buy a gun if he thinks a client might like it but he buys it at a price he can’t get hurt if you don’t take it and he has to carry it for a while.
Bob
Bob I agree, making friends is very important. I’ve found that making friends within a collector community can be as rewarding as the actual collecting.
I see where a collector may be a little hesitant to buy guns for another. I think communication is the key here to insure the buying collector (or expert) knows what the novice collector is looking for.
There’s always that chance that a collector’s buyer or expert may purchase a gun that may not be exactly what the novice collector is looking for. However personally, in that case my buyer/expert isn’t going to get stuck with the gun, because I’m not worried about ending up with a gun that may not be exactly what I want, what worries me is ending up with a Frankenstein gun that nobody wants. Which is probably what would happen if I found and purchased a Winchester myself.
Winchester Model 1873 44-40 circa 1886
wolfbait said
And remember, don’t let other collectors try to talk you into what you should or should not enjoy collecting. This is your hobby, and you have the right to spend your money as you see fit, and enjoy whatever brings you pleasure. Everyone has different tastes in collecting, and everyone should respect other collectors choices in their decisions. I was at a gun show inspecting an exhibitors collection of Rusty Relics. I found them interesting, and they were the exhibitors passion. Two guys walked by, looked at the Rusty Relics and said within earshot “that guy’s crazy collecting that junk”. I made a point of complimenting the exhibitor on his interesting display. Collecting firearms is a wonderful diversion from life’s everyday trials and tribulations. It’s your hobby, decide what you personally enjoy, study and research all of your options, and have fun.
I agree here as well. I always tell novice custom knife collectors who seek my advise that the best type/style knife to collect is the type/style knife that you personally will get the most pleasure out of collecting.
Unfortunately, there always seem to be a few rude attendees at shows. Most often they are those who don’t know as much as they think they do about the subject.
Winchester Model 1873 44-40 circa 1886
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