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August 8, 2024
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Would someone please post what lots #2099, #2103, #2113, and #2124 sold for. In the recent Auction.
November 5, 2014
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Hi Bob-
These screen shots have the “Final Price” (with Buyer’s Premium). I wasn’t watching…
Lot 2099
Lot 2103
Lot 2113
Lot 2124
Hope this helps!!!
Lou
WACA 9519; Studying Pre-64 Model 70 Winchesters
November 7, 2015
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Cool! Would have liked to see those 54’s.
Mike
August 8, 2024
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Thank you very much Louis! Wayne was interested in the Model 54s. The .300 Win. Mag. Looked fine to me. But, like we discussed earlier I had some concerns with the 9 M/M Carbine. Did you pick up the .22 Special Feather Wieght?
November 5, 2014
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HaHaHa!!! 
Nope… The pre-auction estimates were $5-10K on each. I personally didn’t feel they were worth the low estimate (I mean to me, no disrespect to other collectors). Anyway, I was logged in prepared to bid in the unlikely case that they didn’t attract as much interest as expected…
Well… The 22 Caliber Special (22-308) generated a pretty fierce bidding battle and ended up hammering at $17,000 (excluding buyer’s premium). When the next lot came up, the 27 Caliber Special (270-308), I think one of the two big bidders dropped out, as it hammer for “only” $6500. Not bad for a pretty rough M70 Featherweight chambered for a cartridge that doesn’t exist!!!
Anyway… On to the next!!!
Lou
WACA 9519; Studying Pre-64 Model 70 Winchesters
December 21, 2006
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I did manage to pick up a couple of pieces from Bob’s collection, I won’t say which ones right now, plus a few others, but I am a happy camper.
W.A.C.A. life member, Marlin Collectors Assn. charter and life member, C,S.S.A. member and general gun nut.
August 27, 2014
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What do others really think about the Rare Non Catalogued, Very Rare and Special Order guns?
“If you can’t convince them, confuse them”
President Harry S. Truman
November 7, 2015
Online
Tedk said
What do others really think about the Rare Non Catalogued, Very Rare and Special Order guns?
I tend to disregard all of those phrases, too often overused. My local Orphanage thinks about a third of their old Winchesters are “Special Order” and we all know that’s not possible.
Mike
April 15, 2005
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Tedk said
What do others really think about the Rare Non Catalogued, Very Rare and Special Order guns?
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
March 31, 2009
Online
Louis Luttrell said
HaHaHa!!!
Nope… The pre-auction estimates were $5-10K on each. I personally didn’t feel they were worth the low estimate (I mean to me, no disrespect to other collectors). Anyway, I was logged in prepared to bid in the unlikely case that they didn’t attract as much interest as expected…
Well… The 22 Caliber Special (22-308) generated a pretty fierce bidding battle and ended up hammering at $17,000 (excluding buyer’s premium). When the next lot came up, the 27 Caliber Special (270-308), I think one of the two big bidders dropped out, as it hammer for “only” $6500. Not bad for a pretty rough M70 Featherweight chambered for a cartridge that doesn’t exist!!!
Anyway… On to the next!!!
Lou
Lou, what is the history of the 22-308? The Military and Winchester experimented with the 30-06 and 308 cases using smaller bullets in the 1950’s. Garands were chambered in 22-06 (Project Salvo) and 27-308 in another project. My friend has one of the Garands in 22 Duplex, (22-06), 2 bullets. These cases came with 1 to 3 bullets. I have a simplex and a duplex cartridge.
February 19, 2013
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i can’t believe the Model 54 in 38-55 went so low….I know its no model 70 but the last one i saw online went for big bucks!
November 5, 2014
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Hi Chuck-
About all I know is what’s in Rule’s book and the 1990 Gun Report article by Joe and John Vavinetti. So not a lot… The Vaninettis had several of these R&D guns in their collection, possibly including the two in the Morphy auction. I’d have to check, as the Vaninetti guns are listed by serial number in the Gun Report article…
Having developed the T-65 cartridge (7.62 mm NATO a.k.a. 308 WIN) in collaboration with the US military, Winchester was apparently further engaged to do developmental work on lighter and/or more lethal cartridges based on the 30-06 and 308 WIN case dimensions. I suppose this desire on the part of the military is what eventually led to the adoption of the 5.56 mm NATO and M-16 as a replacement for the 7.62 mm NATO and M-14…
Part of what Winchester did was the Project Salvo homologous cartridge series, where the 308 WIN case was necked down to .177, .223, .257, and .277; called .18 CAL. SPECIAL, .22 CAL. SPECIAL, etc. The other part was the “duplex” and “triplex” multiple projectile bullets for these experimental cartridges. Evidently none of it led anywhere, except that Winchester did develop the 6mm-08 (243 WIN) and 358-08 (358 WIN) for commercial application.
I believe that the Vaninetti guns came directly from Winchester’s R&D vault. Below is the Table from their article. Note the rifle for duplex bullets was a Standard rifle, the others were Featherweights…
Best,
Lou
WACA 9519; Studying Pre-64 Model 70 Winchesters
March 31, 2009
Online
Louis Luttrell said
Hi Bob-
About all I know is what’s in Rule’s book and the 1990 Gun Report article by Joe and John Vavinetti. So not a lot… The Vaninettis had several of these R&D guns in their collection, possibly including the two in the Morphy auction. I’d have to check, as the Vaninetti guns are listed by serial number in the Gun Report article…
Having developed the T-65 cartridge (7.62 mm NATO a.k.a. 308 WIN) in collaboration with the US military, Winchester was apparently further engaged by to do developmental work on lighter and/or more lethal cartridges based on the 30-06 and 308 WIN case dimensions. I suppose this desire on the part of the military is what eventually led to the adoption of the 5.56 mm NATO and M-16 as a replacement for the 7.62 mm NATO and M-14…
Part of what Winchester did was the Project Salvo homologous cartridge series, where the 308 WIN case was necked down to .177, .223, .257, and .277; called .18 CAL. SPECIAL, .22 CAL. SPECIAL, etc. The other part was the “duplex” and “triplex” multiple projectile bullets for these experimental cartridges. Evendntly none of it led anywhere, except that Winchester did develop the 6mm-08 (243 WIN) and 358-08 (358 WIN) for commercial application.
IIRC both M70 Featherweights and Standard rifles were assembled for various forms of testing as part of Project Salvo. I believe that the Vaninetti guns came directly from Winchester’s R&D vault. I’ll try and post the table from the Gun Report article in a minute…
Best,
Lou
Thanks Lou, I love learning. Here are a couple pictures of the Win Duplex.
August 27, 2014
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Tedk said
What do others really think about the Rare Non Catalogued, Very Rare and Special Order guns?
Apologize for not being clear enough, I’m specifically referring to the M54’s and M70’s that Bo Rich was inquiring about
“If you can’t convince them, confuse them”
President Harry S. Truman
November 7, 2015
Online
Tedk said
Tedk said
What do others really think about the Rare Non Catalogued, Very Rare and Special Order guns?
Apologize for not being clear enough, I’m specifically referring to the M54’s and M70’s that Bo Rich was inquiring about
I’m sorry. I thought the 54’s were pretty cool because I felt they were unusual. I don’t know which cartridge the “27” was actually chambered for so have even less to offer there. All four were quite interesting, as were the results.
Mike
August 27, 2014
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Mike,
No need to apologize, my question really wasn’t clear
Ted
“If you can’t convince them, confuse them”
President Harry S. Truman
December 3, 2017
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Morphy Auction September 2025
| Lot# | Desc | Serial# | Price |
| 1424 | DELUXE ENGRAVED PRESENTATION PRE-WAR MODEL 70 .220 SWIFT BOLT ACTION RIFLE | 29989 | $3,000 |
| 1425 | EXPERIMENTAL .22 SPECIAL WINCHESTER MODEL 70 BOLT ACTION RIFLE PICTURED IN THE RIFLEMAN’S RIFLE (Vaninetti collection) | 277805 | $16,000 |
| 1426 | EXPERIMENTAL .27 SPECIAL WINCHESTER MODEL 70 BOLT ACTION RIFLE PICTURED IN THE RIFLEMAN’S RIFLE (Vaninetti collection) | 292263 | $6,000 |
| 1427 | SPECIAL ORDER PRE-WAR WINCHESTER MODEL 70 BOLT ACTION RIFLE IN 8MM MAUSER | 26881 | $5,500 |
| 1433 | SPECIAL ORDER PRE-64 WINCHESTER MODEL 70 BOLT ACTION RIFLE IN .25-35 WCF | 44564 | $6,000 |
| 2079 | SCARCE PRE-64 WINCHESTER MODEL 70 FEATHERWEIGHT BOLT ACTION RIFLE IN .358 WINCHESTER | 341632 | $4,200 |
| 2080 | ENGRAVED WINCHESTER MODEL 54 BOLT ACTION NRA RIFLE IN .250-3000 SAVAGE | 43566A | $2,200 |
| 2092 | AS NEW IN BOX PRE-64 WINCHESTER MODEL 70 FEATHERWEIGHT .264 WIN MAG BOLT ACTION RIFLE | 552313 | $3,600 |
| 2093 | PRE-64 SUPER GRADE WINCHESTER MODEL 70 BOLT ACTION RIFLE IN .243 WINCHESTER | 115690 | $1,700 |
| 2094 | PRE-64 SUPER GRADE WINCHESTER MODEL 70 BOLT ACTION RIFLE IN .30-06 | 115690 | $2,000 |
| 2095 | SCARCE PRE-WAR WINCHESTER MODEL 70 BOLT ACTION CARBINE IN .270 WINCHESTER | 21091 | $5,000 |
| 2096 | DESIRABLE PRE-WAR WINCHESTER MODEL 70 BOLT ACTION CARBINE IN .257 ROBERTS | 30789 | $1,800 |
| 2097 | PRE-64 WINCHESTER MODEL 70 BOLT ACTION RIFLE IN 7MM | 194549 | $5,000 |
| 2098 | EXCELLENT PRE-64 WINCHESTER MODEL 70 FEATHERWEIGHT BOLT ACTION RIFLE IN .243 WINCHESTER WITH BOX | 541432 | $2,400 |
| 2099 | RARE NON CATALOGUED WINCHESTER MODEL 54 BOLT ACTION CARBINE IN .38-55 | 31137A | $1,900 |
| 2100 | RARE WINCHESTER MODEL 54 BOLT ACTION NRA SHORT RIFLE IN .22 HORNET | 50754A | $3,400 |
| 2102 | PULITZER PRIZE MARKED SPECIAL ORDER PRE-64 WINCHESTER MODEL 70 BOLT ACTION RIFLE IN .35 REMINGTON | 310455 | Passed |
| 2103 | VERY RARE PRE-WAR WINCHESTER MODEL 70 9X57 BOLT ACTION CARBINE | 17382 | $5,000 |
| 2104 | PRE-64 WINCHESTER MODEL 70 BOLT ACTION RIFLE IN .250-3000 SAVAGE | 96967 | $5,000 |
| 2105 | SCARCE PRE-WAR WINCHESTER MODEL 70 BOLT ACTION CARBINE IN 7.65MM | 42554 | $5,500 |
| 2106 | RARE PRE-64 SUPERGRADE WINCHESTER MODEL 70 BOLT ACTION RIFLE IN .338 WIN MAG | 479639 | Passed |
| 2107 | PRE-64 SUPER GRADE WINCHESTER MODEL 70 BOLT ACTION RIFLE IN .375 H&H MAGNUM | 168699 | $2,800 |
| 2108 | EXTREMELY RARE PRE-64 WINCHESTER MODEL 70 BOLT ACTION CARBINE IN .375 H&H MAGNUM | 354265 | $4,600 |
| 2109 | PRE-64 SUPER GRADE WINCHESTER MODEL 70 BOLT ACTION RIFLE IN .300 H&H MAGNUM | 368370 | $1,900 |
| 2110 | PRE-64 SUPER GRADE WINCHESTER MODEL 70 BOLT ACTION RIFLE IN .22 HORNET | 107007 | $3,400 |
| 2111 | PRE-64 SUPER GRADE WINCHESTER MODEL 70 BOLT ACTION RIFLE IN .220 SWIFT | 299643 | $2,600 |
| 2112 | RARE PRE-64 SUPER GRADE WINCHESTER MODEL 70 FEATHERWEIGHT BOLT ACTION RIFLE IN .270 WINCHESTER | 407377 | $3,600 |
| 2113 | RARE PRE-64 WINCHESTER MODEL 70 WESTERNER BOLT ACTION RIFLE IN .300 WIN MAG | 568046 | $2,400 |
| 2117 | ENGRAVED STEYR MANNLICHER SCHOENAUER MODEL 1952 BOLT ACTION CARBINE | 7854 | $2,200 |
| 2119 | PRE-64 WINCHESTER MODEL 70 BOLT ACTION RIFLE IN .22 HORNET | 62757 | $2,800 |
| 2120 | PRE-64 WINCHESTER MODEL 70 FEATHERWEIGHT BOLT ACTION RIFLE IN .308 WINCHESTER | 360273 | $1,600 |
| 2121 | PRE-64 WINCHESTER MODEL 70 VARMINT BOLT ACTION RIFLE IN .243 WINCHESTER | 521366 | $1,400 |
| 2122 | SCARCE WINCHESTER MODEL 54 BOLT ACTION CARBINE IN 9X57 | 23749 | $2,400 |
| 2123 | WINCHESTER MODEL 54 BOLT ACTION CARBINE IN .30-30 | 19607 | $2,400 |
| 2124 | SPECIAL ORDER WINCHESTER MODEL 54 BOLT ACTION RIFLE IN .300 SAVAGE | 17421 | $3,400 |
| 2125 | WINCHESTER MODEL 54 BOLT ACTION NRA SHORT RIFLE IN 7.65MM | 45784A | $3,800 |
| 2126 | RARE 7MM WINCHESTER MODEL 54 BOLT ACTION RIFLE | 18707 | $2,800 |
November 19, 2006
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Note that the above prices listed don’t include the buyer’s premium.
November 19, 2006
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This one took me by surprise – seems like a lot of money for a plain Model 43:
($3,120 – includes buyer’s premium but not sales tax, etc.).
August 8, 2024
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Well, I had concerns with the Model 70s that were of non-cataloged chambers. Others must of felt the same way. The 7.65, and the 9 M/M carbines would require a price much higher then what these two sold for. If this was not the case. I would think that most advanced Model 70 Collectors would agree with this.
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