Model 70 Super Grade Maple|Page 2|Winchester Rifles|Forum|Winchester Collector

Bert H. said
While ownership of the original W.R.A.Co. company did indeed change hands in 1931 (becoming a separate division of the Western Cartridge Company), the original New Haven factory and all of its skilled employees did not change. They very simply continued to manufacture the exact same firearms & models (though several models were discontinued shortly after the transfer of ownership) with the same people and equipment.  The same is not true when the new USRACo was formed and began manufacturing firearms in May of 1981.  
  

When USRAC acquired the Winchester factory and machinery in 1981, they continued to produce essentially the same models as were produced by Winchester-Western, made by the same employees, on the same equipment, and in the same factory as were present under Olin’s management when it was “Winchester-Western.” Look at the catalogs from those years.  It can be argued, with good evidence, that Olin made more changes to the Winchester gun offerings than USRAC did in the first two years. 

Bert & I have gone round on this before.  I argued then, and continue to assert that when the same people were making the same guns in the same factory then there is an excellent prima facie case that it was still “Winchester” firearms that were being produced.  To contend otherwise is to say that the sina qua non criterion (that without which) which makes a Winchester a Winchester is who owned the trademark, rather than who made the guns and where they were made.  By that same exact line of reasoning, no “real Winchesters” were made after the Olin Corporation acquired the brand in 1931.  

I believe now, and will continue to hold the belief that real Winchesters were made by USRAC, and that the real death of Winchester guns came when the factory was closed and the work force laid off in 2005.  Bert can disagree with me, of course.  But I am by no means alone in my belief.  Pushing this matter too far can only hurt WACA by limiting its membership through such dismissive attitudes.

BRP

The more I think about it,  the more I’m inclined to think corporate mindset is a factor in the Model 70 QC issue.. 

In 1986 or so, when Browning set out to reproduce the Winchester 1886 rifle and then the 1895,  the quality of these was nothing short of superb and I well remember the rave reviews. Likewise the Model 12 and 42 pumps. Miroku deserves full credit for execution of the work but Browning gets credit for conceiving the idea and translating analog Winchester plans and specs into digital programs that could be executed with ultra-high precision  to re-create original Winchesters with eye-popping accuracy. 

Even the most diehard pre-64 Winchester fanatic cannot look at the exposed lockwork of a Browning (or Winchester) branded Miroku 1895 without grudging admiration for its fit and function. 

And the Model 1895 action is a very complex design, particularly compared to the very slightly modified Mauser action of the Model 70 rifle. 

If there have been major failure-to-function or lamentable accuracy complaints about any of the Miroku-built reproductions of John Browning”s Winchester designs, I have yet to hear about it.  The Miroku version of the Model 71 and 1886 actions have been used as the basis for some very high dollar.dangerous game rifles by American custom gummakers of unimpeachable reputation. 

So why the apparent hit-and-miss reputation of the FN version of the Model 70?  

Because Miroku didnt make it?  Maybe. It now has a Worldwide reputation for very high quality products. –  priced accordingly, which is probably why Browming didn’t let them do it. The retail price would have probably doubled.

Which brings up the interesting question, why mot let it double?  The lever action Winchesters are not bargain basement items. Why let lesser skilled workers fit and finish it to keep the Model 70 price competitive with — what?? 

Is it possible a faction of Browming would prefer to see its own Xbolt as the top of the line? If that is true, for marketing purposes the Model 70 should have a lower price point. 

Hopefully it’s only a temporary problem emanating from the Portugal facility.  If  i recall correctly, FN had the final production of the P-35 High Power pistol assembled in Portugal so it’s not their first rodeo, although fitting, finishing, assembling and making the subtle final adjustments to a fine sporting rifle surely require a higher degree of skill and experience than final assembly of a service-grade pistol with fairly generous tolerances and pass/fail requirements. 

If so, that’s a curable problem with an intensified inspection program and perhaps enhanced training and supervision. Provided Browning with FNH support does it soon and puts its back into it. 

I’ve been trying to sum up the number of actual competitors of the current Winchester Model 70.  I’m John Doe and I want a bolt action centerfire hunting rifle. From what I’m seeing,  the least expensive, synthetic stocked Model 70 can be had for less than a thousand USD but the various Featherweight and Supergrade rifles run from about fifteen hundred to two thousand and more.

Bergara, Kimber, Nosler, Beretta, Weatherby, and other “premium production” makers compete within this price range, not to mention Browning’s own wood stocked X-bolt line. 

Just as concerning (to Winchester) is the lower priced competition, some of whom are making very handsome traditional sporters:  Mossberg and Savage are particularly impressive, the second generation Ruger American is fierce, there’s Howa, and Winchester has its own XPR line. Some of these throw in decent, already mounted optics. All for significantly less than a grand. 

My point is, if Joe has fifteen hundred bucks to spend and is a rational homo economicus,  he has a hell of lot to choose from and seriously examine.  The Model 70 is going to get less leeway for cosmetic defects than something for half the price.

Worse, if the current Model 70 gets a reputation among gun writers and the gun store commando legion for unreliable function, the only people who will buy it are a few of our brand-loyal selves, the “overwhelming majority of whom” [to borrow a phrase] are aging, many like me to near their sell-by dates. And the Winchester Model 70 will join the excellent Remington 700 and the Savage 99 in the dustbin of manufacturing history. 

Perhaps the overwhelming majority won’t mind but I think it would be a shame. Of the makers I’ve named, the only ones that would still make a semi-affordable sporting rifle on the Mauser 98 pattern would be Sturm Ruger and Kimber. I said semi-affordable, remember. 

You mean like this one.  It is a 19 lb bench rifle.  Made to shoot long range. 

 I’m currently building a F Class Open rifle in 284 Win.   Here is the stock I bought.  No hiking the hills with these rifles.

  https://dimars.com.ua/fopen/tproduct/154717572-286820156921-f-open-mod-5-7-72

Since I can’t now “un-see” that hideous monstrosity, I’ll just have to pass around the eye bleach.

BRP