Model 70 Super Grade Maple|Winchester Rifles|Forum|Winchester Collector

Brian-

My experience was with BACO or Browning, owners of the Winchester brand at the time (2009-2010). I ordered and received two Super Grades in 30-06, one for my brother, one for me. Both had some of the prettiest wood I’ve seen on a modern production gun. The one I kept had serious accuracy issues and each fired case had a bright ring slightly above the head of the case. I contacted BACO and they blamed my handloads. Same results with new cases and factory loads. Tried several different loads. Told BACO the rifle had headspace issues. They didn’t believe me. I bought a set of headspace gauges and proved it. They told me to mail the rifle back to them. I had invested a few hundred dollars in factory loads, different bullets and powders before investing in a set of gauges. A short time later they shipped me a replacement rifle. The wood was pretty nice but not nearly as nice as the original. Accuracy was a problem with the second rifle as well, I tried dozens of loads with dismal results. I finally returned the second rifle and when it returned it shot quite a bit better. They did not tell me what they did to repair it, only said it was within specs or something like that. The “MOA” trigger was terrible after they worked on the rifle so I pulled the barreled action out of the stock to adjust the trigger and discovered someone had glued the adjustment screws to prevent adjustment. They also bedded the recoil lug and rear tang. Some of you may know the normal “bedding” of production rifles at this time was a bead of something like hot glue across the recoil lug recess. I solved the trigger issue with a new assembly from Timney. I don’t know what else they did and they would only tell me it met their standards or some such corporate-speak. I think they did something else but I could not tell what, if anything, they did. It finally delivered the “MOA” implied by their advertising but it was only a little under MOA with very carefully tailored loads. It’s a beautiful rifle, it shoots pretty well, my only complaint is that they didn’t think I knew what I was talking about when I contacted them with my concerns. Gluing the trigger adjustment screws was a bit spiteful, I think. Heat to release the adhesive would have distorted the stamped steel trigger housing (and probably voided the warranty) so I just wrote it off. I think BACO was having some issues in the warranty repair department at that time.

I’m glad they decided your concerns were indeed valid from the start, I sincerely believe they will do the right thing for you. 

Mike

Brian-

It was indeed unpleasant but If I had it to do all over again I’d buy the same rifle. Those Maple stock guns are certainly showy with good fit and finish. My brother’s rifle, the twin to mine, is flawless. Only issue is it’s so pretty he won’t hunt his South Texas lease with it when weather is bad. His other Model 70, a wedding gift from his wife, is still like new after 40 years and lots of hunting trips. I gave him my Ruger 77 stainless/synthetic 30-06 to save his pretty guns. I have no idea how your rifle got past QC but I’m glad they responded quickly. Winchester may not be the company they used to be but I’d still buy one.

Mike

FNH makes a big point how the Model 70 is “internationally sourced”. That probably means the hammer forged barrels are made in South Carolina and, very likely, the major action components like the frame and bolt, as well. The Carolina plant contains an enormous investment in very expensive hammer forging equipment and even more expensive computer numeric controlled, ultra-high precision milling and machining equipment.

Such a facility has to be situated in the United States to satisfy the military’s domestic production requirements.  Once established,  it uses its excess capacity to manufacture commercial barrels, action frames and other high precision parts. These operations are not hand labor intensive. 

It would make no sense to replicate that facility in a lower-wage country like Portugal, where skilled craftsmanship is still relatively low-cost.  Assembling rifles from parts made elsewhere is a labor intensive task, along with any remaining fitting and finishing, done more cost-effectively in Portugal. 

I will bet a donut FNH makes Model 70 barrels, action frames, bolts, maybe entire trigger assemblies, possibly semi-finished stocks and small parts, and ships them to Lisbon or wherever their Portugal plant is. 

I would have thought scope mounting holes would be located and drilled under computer control in Carolina, with little to no opportunity for error. Hard to imagine it being done post-manufacturing. Confusing.  But I will bet a second donut the action is completed,  the barrel screwed in, headspaced, and the barreled action bedded in the stock, all by Portuguese employees.  

Shame on FNH if its supervising resident engineers have been asleep at the switch. The only experience I have had with this sort of multi-country gunmaking has been my Browning Model BSS Sporter, a 12 gauge side-by-side “Built in Japan [by Miroku] and Assembled in Korea.” It is finely made in every respect. In the Eighties I owned and used extensively the 20-gauge pistol gripped version of the BSS, one made entirely in Japan. There was no perceptable change in quality. 

It sounds like Browning needs to send a squad of Avenging Angels to Portugal, to kick assets and take names. 

I have a long but shallow history of buying new Browning products, starting in 1967 with a new 12 gauge Auto-5 made in Belgium.  I’ve owned several over the years, made in Belgium by FN and in Japan by Miroku. Then a series of used FN and SAKO High Power rifles, several of the Browning Classic series Winchester reproductions all made in Japan by Miroku, a new Miroku built Citori 725, and a Belgian Superposed.  

To be blunt, there has not been for me a dime’s worth of difference in mechanical or cosmetic quality between FN and Miroku. Maybe my experience is too narrow but until recently, Ive thought Browning was as good as you could get in a production arm. Im partial to old Winchesters but for stuff made after 1964,  Browning has been top shelf. 

In all my years from, say 1967 through 2000,  I never heard any such quality control failures as are now being reported. The stories I have heard all seem to be about the Winchester Model 70 rifles assembled in Potugal.  Is the problem broader than that? 

Well. According to a couple of famously well known gunwriters. The late Jack O’Connor and his successor at Outdoor Life, Jim Carmichael, Winchester for many years was not particularly sensitive to claims of inaccuracy.  It was the increased interest in benchrest and handloading that eventually forced the manufacturers to concern themselves with the subject. 

I recall O’Connor telling a story about a rifle owner who complained his rifle was inaccurate..The manufacturer returned the rifle with a note that it had met with their accuracy standards, without disclosing what those standards were. 

I have wondered how seriously Browning took preserving the functional quality of the Model 70 because, prior to FNH acquiring the rights to make it, Browning”s own center fire bolt action rifles were in direct competition with it.  Perhaps the Model 70 was seen as a nostalgia product for its adherents whereas the X-Bolt would be the flagship. That sort of internal brand loyalty would not be surprising. 

Botchan said
Well folks, Winchester finally sent me a brief email, “the gun was not within specifications and they will be sending me a new gun”. You guys really called it, they screwed the pooch but don’t want to admit it…
  

I’m glad they seem to be doing the right thing for you, it’s the only sensible thing to do. Unfortunately in some situations it takes awhile for a company to understand that. Bert is right, your Model 70 was not built by the same company that built the rifles most of us collect but if you want a new Model 70 today you don’t have a lot of viable options. I’m hoping this rifle meets your standards as we’ll probably never know what their standards are. 

Mike