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nanzca said
RIA gun is listed as a 38-40 in their description.
Yes it certainly does. What is real surprising is that the gun sold for a whopping $12,650 even though SO MUCH information contradicted the factory letter! This is like watching a train wreck in slow motion. The great thing about the internet is that you can run but you can not hide.
Michael
Model 1892 / Model 61 Collector, Research, Valuation
Good morning all,
No contact from Leroy Merz but the listing is gone from Guns International and from his website!
Michael
Model 1892 / Model 61 Collector, Research, Valuation
Thanks for the update, that is a start I guess.
Regards,
WACA Life Member #6284 - Specializing in Pre-64 Winchester .22 Rimfire
JWA said
Thanks for the update, that is a start I guess.Regards,
I agree. It is a start that sadly should have never had a chance of happening. Somebody(s) is going to probably take a pretty substantial economic beating on that gun and hopefully the knowledge that there is a pretty good chance of getting busted again if it is tried again will help put an end to the fakery of these firearms.
Michael
Model 1892 / Model 61 Collector, Research, Valuation
It does seem likely that a donor carbine was used (since it’s sale from RIA). And, maybe a different donor carbine was used prior to that. My eyes are telling me that the serial number on the receiver is not correct. Even if everything else looked correct, I’m not sure how a person would overcome the contradictory information in the museum letter? That is, if the letter is saying the rifle was returned to have the octagon barrel swapped for a round barrel, I sure wouldn’t expect to see a carbine barrel on the rifle.
steve004 said
It does seem likely that a donor carbine was used (since it’s sale from RIA). And, maybe a different donor carbine was used prior to that. My eyes are telling me that the serial number on the receiver is not correct. Even if everything else looked correct, I’m not sure how a person would overcome the contradictory information in the museum letter? That is, if the letter is saying the rifle was returned to have the octagon barrel swapped for a round barrel, I sure wouldn’t expect to see a carbine barrel on the rifle.
Steve,
I agree that this is a mess and I find it hard that someone paid $12,500 for it at RIA when so much was already wrong with the gun. Then to jump through a bunch of other hoops and try to sell it for 3 times as much!! Most people laying out +$35,000 for a gun are not idiots!!!
Michael
Model 1892 / Model 61 Collector, Research, Valuation
Good morning from Houston,
I finally got around to connecting with Leroy Merz after a bit of telephone tag over a few days. Apparently this rifle was purchased at RIA by a “good customer” of his who has bought a number of Leroy’s rifle in the past. No name divulged. I explained to Leroy that the rifle was about as far from original as could be and that most of the rifle presently was not the gun purchased from RIA. The wood, barrel, and magazine are all different. No real comment. He did seem to attach a lot of value to the fact that the gun (receiver) was a single digit SN. I told him that beyond the fact that there was a single number on the bottom of the receiver that to any serious collector it was basically a parts gun. In addition I went on to explain how many collectors are more than a “bit miffed” at the rash of fake rifle being presented and that I know of numerous guys who are flat not buying because of this. I stressed how bad that was for business for all involved.
So no real “big news” from all of that. This gun will show up some place else down the road.
Michael
Model 1892 / Model 61 Collector, Research, Valuation
Michael –
Thanks for the update.
Let me add that I am not convinced the receiver is legitimately serial number 4. I have the impression it is not. However, that’s just an impression. But when you add in the deceitful fakery that has been worked on this piece, it isn’t a far-fetched idea that the fakery includes the serial number. Also, because of the modifications that have been made, the factory ledger information available is no help. I suppose what would be conclusive is if the real #4 showed up!
What I find most perplexing is why two different donor carbines were selected. Why wasn’t an early numbered donor rifle selected that matched the configuration specified in the factory ledger?
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