Log In
November 21, 2025
Offline
Hello Everyone. I just joined WACA and this forum so I am still learning to navigate it. I looked for a specific thread isolating the Model 70, but I failed if there is one so I decided to start here.
I recently purchased a full stock M70 with a SN showing the receiver was mad in early 1971 (G96xxxx). When I received the rifle, I took it apart and located the barrel numbers and markings. The barrel measures roughly 19 inches, but doesn’t protrude past the stock as I have seen on other M70 Mannlicher photos. Also, it doesn’t have any forward sight attachment holes. I suspect a longer barrel cut down to shorter length. 
I called Winchester, but they said they had no records from Winchester prior to 1994. They recommended this association. Also, no luck finding info doing internet searches.
I was hoping the members of this forum could help me decipher these numbers and marks so I learn more about this M70 as I believe it is not an authentic factory M70 Mannlicher. Any help would be appreciated to explain or give me direction regarding these numbers. I will try to attach photos to help as I may misidentify parts nomenclature. Thank You
I bought it because I like full stock rifles, but it would be nice if it was a factory authentic rifle. I am just curious if it could be a Custom Shop order or if it was an after-purchase modification. I did not find any markings on the stock. The recoil pad has a white-line spacer and word Winchester and some interesting recoil pad screws.
I was hoping that the numbers on the bottom of the barrel and on the lug could tell me the year the barrel was made and original length
Bottom of barrel just forward of the receiver lug: 32985
Receiver lug: 709 (Screw hole) Letter Z
Top of barrel: Proof mark of PW in oval (double/overlapping strike)
Inside the bolt raceway: The number 1
On the magazine: Letter B
Barrel Left side: Model 70-30-06 SPRG- Made in New Haven, CONN, U.S.A. Winchester Proof Steel-
Jeweled bolt with etched matching SN (Poorly done with sanding marks?)
Smooth bolt handle (I believe a 1971 M70 Mannlicher had a knurled knob)
Sorry about the pics loading in the narrative. I learned I should have uploaded them differently.
August 27, 2014
Offline
Badger,
Pics of the whole gun, stock and mannlicher nose cap would be very helpful
“If you can’t convince them, confuse them”
President Harry S. Truman
November 5, 2014
Offline
Hi Badger-
I admit I know NOTHING about post-63 M70 Winchesters, but have you searched “1971 Model 70 Winchester Mannlicher” on-line? I’m seeing pics of guns with metallic sights and with no sights… For example:
I do not have the right catalogs, but I’m sure somebody does. There might be a digital copy available Cornell Pubs (for a fee of course)…
Good Luck!!!
Lou
WACA 9519; Studying Pre-64 Model 70 Winchesters
January 20, 2023
Offline
Badger, it happens I know a little bit about the Model 70 “Mannlicher.” First of all, it was not a Custom Shop special order but rather a stock, catalogued style of the Model 70 for a brief number of catalog years in the early Seventies.
It was not made in large numbers and was offered only in 3 calibers, as I recall, I believe the 243, 270, and 30/06. [EDIT: and .308]
The 19 inch barrel is correct for that style.
I haven’t followed them closely but at one time they were considered hard-to-get and seemed to bring a good price.
EDIT: THE ROCK ISLAND AUCTION LOU CITES SAYS PERIOD OF MANUFACTURE WAS 69-71, total made about 2000.
I just ran a closed GB auction search and turned up 3 in 2025. One crossed for over 4K, another for about 1.2k, 3rd one wouldn’t sell for a fixed 2.4k. Go figure.
- Bill
WACA # 65205; life member, NRA; member, TGCA; member, TSRA; amateur preservationist
"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.
January 20, 2023
Offline
One last comment. The former head of publicity for Winchester and founder of Winchester Press, Jim Rikhoff, owned one of the Model 70 “Mannlicher”s and carried it on one of Winchester’s gunwriter “seminar” hunts in the highlands of Scotland. O’Connor wrote about the event and mentioned Rikhoff’s gun in the story.
That exhausts what little I know about the rifle, except to say Ray’s Hardware displayed one in caliber 243 under glass for several years and wanted a couple of thousand for it. Somebody eventually bought it but it took a few years.
By 1969 Winchester’s management had waked up from their dream of becoming a military contractor that maybe sold a few commercial guns to the rubes. As reality dawned the build quality and style of the Model 70 had began to slowly improve.
- Bill
WACA # 65205; life member, NRA; member, TGCA; member, TSRA; amateur preservationist
"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.
June 1, 2023
Online
Here are the three relevant pages from the 1971 Winchester catalog, and the Model 70 Mannlicher is pictured and described.
The Model 70 Mannlicher was available in .243, .270, .308, & 30-06.
BRP
November 19, 2006
Offline
Zebulon said
Badger, it happens I know a little bit about the Model 70 “Mannlicher.” First of all, it was not a Custom Shop special order but rather a stock, catalogued style of the Model 70 for a brief number of catalog years in the early Seventies.
It was not made in large numbers and was offered only in 3 calibers, as I recall, I believe the 243, 270, and 30/06. [EDIT: and .308]
The 19 inch barrel is correct for that style.
I haven’t followed them closely but at one time they were considered hard-to-get and seemed to bring a good price.
EDIT: THE ROCK ISLAND AUCTION LOU CITES SAYS PERIOD OF MANUFACTURE WAS 69-71, total made about 2000.
I just ran a closed GB auction search and turned up 3 in 2025. One crossed for over 4K, another for about 1.2k, 3rd one wouldn’t sell for a fixed 2.4k. Go figure.
Yes indeed, the one I owned was in .308. I think it was in the mid-70’s. I know it had been discontinued by then.
January 20, 2023
Offline
It looks like our collaboration is filling in the blanks on the Model 70 Mannlicher. I think I can add one small thing to the pool: Sights were removable. I think this is why some images of the style show an open rear sight and a hooded, ramped front sight, and others don’t. This was true for the post-63 standard style as well.
The rear sight was made by Williams and was attached by 6-48 machine screws. So was the entire front ramp, dovetailed bead sight, and slide-off hood. The Williams sights were high enough to give a good sight picture with the high-combed Monte Carlo stock, but easily removed for low-mounted scope or one with a large objective bell.
The 1966 standard style .243 one of my sons now owns — with a big Bausch & Lomb 4x-12x variable — mounts, cheeks, sights and shoots as if it had 
a custom built stock. It is even marginally less ugly with the sights removed, the holes filled with inconspicuous plug screws, and the sights bagged, labeled and stored. [See images attached.]
At one time, Winchester management was populous with serious target shooters, e.g. the late Dave Carlson and Tom Henshaw, and, despite the cosmetic atrocities committed against the Model 70 seen in the early to mid Nineteen Sixties, the handing and shooting qualities of the rifle were in some ways improved, e.g. barrels rifled by cold hammer forging instead of pulled button broaching. (Some but not all pre-64 Super Grade barrels were cut-rifled.]
- Bill
WACA # 65205; life member, NRA; member, TGCA; member, TSRA; amateur preservationist
"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.
November 21, 2025
Offline
Thank You all for your replies and direction. Here are photos of the M70 put together.
My investigation is really more about if anyone can explain to me or direct me to any sources that would decipher the numbers and letters stamped into the bottom of the barrel and the letter B on the magazine? I figured that these numbers might tell me when the barrel was made and possibly the length when it was cut at the factory. With that information, I could compare it to the specifications of the factory Mannlicher M70s and confirm if it was a longer M70 30-06 barrel that was cut down. I would doubt that it was an authentic factory M70 Mannlicher that just had it’s barrel replaced although that could have happened if the barrel was somehow damaged, but it seems strange that would have happened and the stock not be damaged. As you can see, the rifle is a keeper even if it was not directly from the factory as an M70 Mannlicher. I have no intention of selling it, but just trying to satisfy my curiosity if it could be authentic. As the one picture shows, no front sight screw holes which is my biggest indicator that the barrel is not original. Also, the sanding marks on the bolt where the SN is etched is also suspicious.
January 20, 2023
Offline
Badger,
I see now the reason for your concerns.
The catalog length for the .Model.70 Mannlicher is 19″. Your barrel is, by its roll marks, a factory Winchester barrel, in a caliber correct for that style. The stock is clearly the correct factory stock.
However, the absence of 6-48 sight and ramp attachment holes top center of the barrel are suspicious, to me.
Likewise, the fact that the muzzle of the barrel does not protrude past the nose cap but appears to be flush with it, is a second red flag.
The sanding of the bolt body underneath the serial number that was inscribed with an electric pencil, was done to provide a field for the serial number free of jeweling. I believe this was standard practice for jeweled bolts and is not an indication of a substituted bolt. Our Model 70 experts can correct me.
The absence of knurling on the bolt is curious but there may be an innocent answer: do you see any indication of a pin traversely through the arm of the bolt handle, near it’s root with the bolt body?
The bolt for a 1971 Model 70 action is made of two pieces – the body and the handle. The body is made with a stub and the end of the handle has a mating but undersized mortise. The parts are driven together under heat and pressure and then brazed or electro-welded together.
This connection was known to sometimes fail — as when the unlucky hunter applied superhuman strength to the bolt handle, with the bolt already at the bolt stop, trying to jack a fresh round into his rifle as the wounded Cape buffalo charged him.
The advised solution was for a gunsmith to re-weld the departed handle — or another handle, perhaps unknurled — to the stub, and then drill the joint traversely and install a steel pin. Perhaps that was done in reverse order. This usually required the bolt handle to be refinished.
The various stamps underneath the barrel are inspection marks and codes i don’t understand but I do not believe they indicate date of manufacture or barrel length. If our experts see a mark indicating a factory repair or rework, they will please chime in but I don’t have the knowledge to say.
To sum up:
I think the barrel is likely not original to the gun, although it is a post-63 Winchester Model 70 barrel.
The rifle may or may not have been issued as a Mannlicher style Model 70 and there is no way to determine the issue. (You have not said any serial number was inscribed or stamped inside the inletting of the stock)
The stock obviously is the correct Mannlicher part. Whether it left New Haven as part of an original rifle or was obtained from the surplus parts market is beyond my ability to determine.
If there is any evidence the bolt handle has been secured to the bolt body by a pin or additional welding, that would explain the absence of knurling on the bolt handle.
These are only my opinions and I do not hold myself out as any sort of Winchester expert.
- Bill
WACA # 65205; life member, NRA; member, TGCA; member, TSRA; amateur preservationist
"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.
November 5, 2014
Offline
Hi Badger-
As I said, I know nothing about post-63 Model 70s, but I do know some things about under barrel markings and stamps on factory returned M70s during the pre-64 period…
Up until 1956, Winchester regularly hand stamped barrels beneath the chamber with a caliber designation (chamber inspection stamp) and two-digit year of barrel manufacture. By the 1950s the caliber designation for 30-06 was “30-06” (it had been “1906” for many years). But after 1956 they stopped stamping anything under the barrel except for a datum line indicating the true bottom (90˚ from the extractor cut on a pre-64 barrel).
What Winchester did after 1963 is something I do not know…
As for the hand stamped “32985” under the barrel… Back in the day Winchester would stamp a five- or six-digit number under the barrel when rifles were returned for repair that involved removing stock from action, replacing a barrel, etc. This was supposed to help get the right parts back together after the repair. My understanding is that by the 1950s they changed this to a letter plus four-digit code. This came up in a recent thread, where a M70 was stamped with a simple four digit code (no letter) under the barrel. But these numbers were tied to a work order number and did not relate to barrel date of manufacture/contour/length/etc. So the number under your barrel suggests maybe (???) a factory R&R at some point, but doesn’t say anything about the original length of the barrel.
Another possible clue (???) related to pre-64 days is that beginning in 1960, Winchester would stamp a single digit in the left bolt raceway of rifles returned for repair or customization that represented the year of the return. So on an older pre-64 M70 the “1” would most likely have meant it was returned in 1961. Obviously not the case for a 1971 rifle. If (???) Winchester was still doing this, the “1” might mean “1971” or even “1981”…
Unfortunately I simply do not know how the factory marked returned rifles after 1963… Hopefully someone with more pertinent knowledge can help!!!
Lou
WACA 9519; Studying Pre-64 Model 70 Winchesters
June 19, 2009
Offline
Hi Badger,
A couple of observations with regards to the bolt of your rifle. It’s hard to tell, but the word “FIRE” on the sleeve appears to be the early post 63 cast style with the oval surrounding. This was changed to die stamped in 1968. The bolt sleeve cap was also changed in 68 to have a more rounded dome shape on its back side. Again, it’s hard to tell, but yours looks like it might be the earlier style. These two changes are clearly visible on one of the catalog pages presented earlier by BRP.
These features seem a little bit out of place if your rifle dates to 1971. I don’t know how this play’s out in getting a better understanding your rifle, but I thought it was worth bringing it up.
Ned
January 20, 2023
Offline
Ned and Lou, were there any changes in font, style, placement etc of the exterior barrel rollmarks made from the early 1964 barrels to those made after 1968?
- Bill
WACA # 65205; life member, NRA; member, TGCA; member, TSRA; amateur preservationist
"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.
November 21, 2025
Offline
Thank You all for these thoughts. I guess a Lady never gives up her secrets easily and this seems to be the case with this rifle. I have an original Weaver 2x Post Crosshair scope in the proper year I want to mount and then get some range time to see how she shoots and what she prefers to eat. I am guessing the twist rate is 1:10.
My research has also taken me in the direction that the original rifle may have returned to the factory for some type of work. Too bad Winchester does not have a historical section that could decipher or explain it, especially for a rifle as iconic as a Model 70 (even if it is post-64). Shame.
I thought this forumn might have someone who used to work at the Winchester factory during this era that might shed some light on those years and how things worked. Frustrating to not know what numbers stamped on any machined item mean since they obviously have a meaning. The number 1 on the left-side raceway makes some sense that it represents either 1981 or 1991 rework. I doubt it would be 1971 since it would have been fresh from the factory although the SN is early 1971 so maybe someone bought it in early-mid 1971 and had an issue and it went back under warranty for some type of work.
When I called the current Winchester help line, they were pleasant enough, but also said that Winchester did not give them, or they do not have access to, the pre-1994 (?) Winchester records. Maybe it was 1991.
Does anyone have any books or research suggestions for post-64 M70s or are the pre-64s mostly what everyone focuses on?
I have an M70 FW in 7×57 with a date code of 2013 that I like very much. Thinking about getting a current M70 FW Compact in 7mm-08 before they drop that from the catalogue. I have a Model 92 built in 1896 in 25-20 that is the best little carbine. Saw it on the used rack of my local FFL and snatched it up because I liked how it handled and looked. I was totally ignorant of what 25-20 caliber was. Somewhere along it’s life story someone re-blued it (nicely) so it doesn’t have that weathered look, but it is a shooter. I was thinking about cleaning the internals, but decided against it since I would hate to mess it up. I like how it handles so much, I’m thinking about getting a current Model 92.
January 20, 2023
Offline
Badger, Roger Rule’s book, The Rifleman’s Rifle, does have a final chapter on the post-63 Model 70. That book was first published in 1982, so it may well contain some information on the Mannlicher model. Unless you are a book collector, I suggest the recent paperback edition that is available on Amazon and probably Abe’s Books.
Although I’ve never owned a post-63 Featherweight, I had hunting companions who did, in both 7×57 and 257 Roberts calibers and doted on them. To me, the old pre-64 Featherweight should have been offered in 7mm because it makes into such a light, handy all-around rifle.
As you undoubtedly have seen by now, the very existence of Winchester firearms made after 1963 induces nausea and vomiting in some of our members, except for such rarities as the “Y” series Model 12 shotguns and the very expensive and Unicorn-rare Model 21 double.
The more discriminating recognize that the Winchester Model 70 and Model 94 regained most of their mechanical and functional excellence by about 1970, although controlled-round feeding and a rotating claw extractor were not restored to the Model 70 until circa 1992, when the Winchester Models 70 and 94 were being made in New Haven by Fabrique Nationale d’armes de Guerre.
What most of us tend to see in our mind’s eye when we say or hear “post 63” is the egregious-looking 1964-1967 Models 70 and 94, and perhaps the Model 1200 and 1400 shotguns. These were the products mandated by a group of Ford Motor Company executives recommended by Robert McNamara (then the Secretary of Defense) to modernize the Winchester product line and reduce labor costs. They created a disaster but were not concerned because they intended to make Winchester-Western into a military contractor and regarded commercial guns as unimportant. Which they were, according to the numbers, until America left the Vietnam War.
It is very important to understand that, from the time the gunmaking business called Winchester Repeating Arms was acquired by the Western Cartridge Company in 1931, until Olin Industries sold that business to a group of employees and investors incorporated as USRAC in 1981, the business lost money on every gun it made and sold except in 1965. Fact, not opinion. Olin made guns to sell ammunition.
What FN Herstal, the present owner of the Winchester gummaking business, has brought to the table, is the ability to again machine gun components of the complexity required by, for example, the Pre 64 Model 70 action, through enormously expensive CNC equipment that reduces labor costs. Thanks to FNH, most of the Model 70 rifles made after 1993 are mechanically comparable to those made before 1964. (Some current fit and function problems attributable to the Portuguese plant are a very significant exception and a potential marketing disaster.)
Therefore, when speaking of the Model 70, there are several other dates to be aware of, in addition to 1964:
12/31/1980 – end of Olin ownership.
1984 — short Model 70 action introduced. Before this, short cartridges were handled by fitting long bolt stops and short magazine components.
1989 — USRAC files petition in bankruptcy and the the Winchester gunmaking business is acquired by the Belgian armaments giant Fabrique Nationale d’armes de Guerre, which also owns Browning Arms Company, of Utah.
1992 – re-introduction of the 1898 Mauser feeding and extraction/ejection features to the Model 70. This was enabled by buying and installing very expensive CNC equipment and processes for the New Haven factory.
1/31/2006 The New Haven factory is closed. The Winchester Model 70 production is shifted to the FNH plant in Columbia, South Carolina. Eventually, final assembly moves to Portugal.
SO WHAT’S THE “BEST” post-63 FEATHERWEIGHT?
The 1980/81 XTR Featherweight made in New Haven with a 1964 push-feed action. A few marked Winchester Repeating Arms; most marked USRAC. Very fine fit and finish. Extremely popular model.
The 1992 Classic Featherweight made in New Haven with the new controlled-feed action. All marked USRAC. Very good fit and finish. FNH ownership.
2006 and later Featherweight,? made in South Carolina or Portugal. Marked BACO. Variable fit and finish.
My personal choice would be the 1992 Classic, a 7mmx57 if I could get it in a long action; a 7mm/08 if I could get one in a short action. I wouldn’t buy one sight unseen. I’d want to see it first for fit and finish.
Having handled them, I think the 1992 Classic Featherweight is the best Featherweight ever made by Winchester – better than my 1956 Featherweight because it’s slender and quick handling but with enough weight forward for offhand steadyness. And the pattern and execution of the checkering is really nice.
- Bill
WACA # 65205; life member, NRA; member, TGCA; member, TSRA; amateur preservationist
"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.
1 Guest(s)
