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Hello All. Bo, Thanks for your last input. Well, We have analyized this one pretty well. Thank you ALL for your input, time & knowledge. Pretty good idea of what I have now. A nice looking ’63 Parts Gun most likely NOT factory assembled. Well! Live and Learn! 
Cheers! GRIZ.
Lots of era correct SG Fwts that are nice looking parts guns most likely not factory assembled
“If you can’t convince them, confuse them”
President Harry S. Truman
Zebulon, I do not think that you are overlooking anything. You bring up some good points. The stock will be questioned of course. But, with that, and they way the gun is made up makes the whole story. Louis stated earlier the change on the Super Grade after 1955. He even pictured a 1962 Special Ordered Feather Wieght Westerner. The gun has everything that the Model 70 Collector would want. It lacks nothing that should be on that type of rifle. A Super Grade Feather Weight would be a special ordered item in 1963. I don’t believe that one ordered, would be like the one we are discussing.
Bo, I take your point. If the rifle had to be a special order in 1963, who would order it with a plastic buttplate and no engine-turning? If there’s a sticking point, that’s likely it.
The absence of the #255 and a BM hood is easier for me to swallow, particularly if the gun has gone through several dealers over the last 6 decades. A lot of Lyman 48F and 56W micrometer sights seem to disappear in transit over time. Many a pilgrim with his heart set on a Model 71 Special must think the Williams FP-71 was factory standard.
Of course, we ( at least, I) don’t know what Griz paid for his gun and why he bought it.
If he paid full boat without a whopping discount for its questionable provenance, as an investment, he’s joined the Sadder But Wiser Club, which has a large membership including me.
If he bought it for significantly less because he thinks it’s handsome and he couldn’t or wouldn’t pay the big ticket for an unquestionable specimen, and it is going hunting, that’s another matter. He’s got what he wanted and it likely won’t lose value. Even though it will always be a hard sell.
Either way, it’s a great hobby that keeps us out of pool halls and houses of ill repute.
- Bill
WACA # 65205; life member, NRA; member, TGCA; member, TSRA; amateur preservationist
"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.
Zeb,
I would be interested in buying your pictured Redfield #255 sight. I have been looking for one of these sights for quite some time without success. I need one for a 1958, model 70 Super Grade featherweight. I have all four calibers of the 1955- 1959 Super Grade featherweights which I plan to display at the Cody Gun show in July.
If you or anyone you know has a Redfield #255, I would be interested in purchasing.
Dick
November 7, 2015
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Seems to me only two things are clear; it’s a fine-looking rifle but we’ll likely never know its complete life story. From what I’m gathering almost anything was possible in that time period, a great illustration of our “never say never” proverb. If it is indeed genuine it will never get its due from a discerning collector. I like it, and the important thing is that Griz likes it.
Mike
November 5, 2014
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Mike-
I think you summed it up…
From the limited photos, IMHO the rifle has what appears to be a legit late production (plastic butt) Super Grade stock and a legit aluminum “SUPER GRADE” floor plate. The Custom Shop LLC repro stocks, while dimensionally accurate, differ in the inletting (which we can’t see here), wood finish (they do not try to duplicate a Winchester lacquer finish), and are inlet for a widow’s peak floor plate. Seems unlikely that anyone would specifically order a repro stock from them with a plastic butt…
The barreled action is that of a standard Featherweight in terms of metal finishes, markings, etc. The front sight is a later replacement. Even if the rifle was originally a regular production standard Featherweight it would have had an unmarked Win 103E front sight. So that sight has been changed out. If it were an original Super Grade, it would almost certainly IMHO have a Redfield 255. OTOH… As Zeb pointed out, I’ve seen quite a few genuine M70 Super Grades for sale (usually well used 270 WIN or 30-06 rifles with recoil pads, etc.) from which the front sight had been canibilized (presumably for separate sale or use in “upgrading” a different gun).
I’m not convinced that a SG Featherweight made in 1963 would necessarily be a Special Order, as opposed to simple parts clean-up. Look, for example, at Wayne Miller’s late 30-06 Super Grade s/n 559363 (it’s pictured in Rule’s book). Plastic butt, no jeweling, plain wood, etc. If we assume that one is a legit factory rifle, it too was assembled using parts on-hand… Similar to the declining attention to detail on late Africans that I described previously.
So… To me this is a rifle that I cannot prove or disprove… Either put together by the factory after they stopped giving a damn or put together by someone else using leftover factory parts. If I owned the rifle, I think I’d keep it (in the collection, not solely as a “shooter”). Then again, I have a large enough M70 collection, including (5) other SG Featherweights, that I actually like having some “question mark” guns… Adds a little “spice” to the “nickel tour” of my gun room… Something for Bob (and others who know M70s) to frown upon… 
But if I were a collector wanting a “representative” SG Featherweight, that one wouldn’t be it…
Just my (final) take…
Lou
WACA 9519; Studying Pre-64 Model 70 Winchesters
Louis,. After seeing your 1962 Super Grade Feather wieght Westerner with all the features that should be on a Super Grade Feather Wieght. I can not help but to think that Winchester would of made them all the same way. Did Winchester make some super Grade stocks with a plastic butt plate, and not put them on a rifle? Then when they were found there became some new Super Grades available! This could be possible, and more then likely true. Since the Super Grade, and the Super Grade Feather wieght were cataloged through 1959 when the plastic butt plate became available. I have never seen a Super Grade rifle made in 1959. If I saw one, and it had a platic butt plate with the the rest of the feature found on the SGFW that would be exceptable. I don’t think that they would make a Special Order, or Non catalged rifle differently over a short period of time. You mentioned later year Africans that you have on record. I agree that this is a good comparison with another Super Grade being made in the early 1960s. With one big exception in that the African was always a cataloged Winchester rifle. So, the cost saving changes found on these later guns could be more excepted. I am happy. I think that I learned something new after seeing your rifle. Thank You!
November 5, 2014
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Hi Bob-
Look at Photo 8-43 in Roger’s book. He claims this is a NIB gun with a box marked “Special”… Super Grade Featherweight-Westerner 264 WIN. MAGNUM (s/n 548081) with a plastic butt plate and blued extractor. I can’t make out whether the bolt body is jeweled or how the barrel is blued.
Compare to Photo 8-30, another plain wood Super Grade Featherweight-Westerner (s/n 550474), this one with a factory looking vent pad. It doesn’t have the documentation of the other one, but Rule claims the pad looks factory installed. He doesn’t show the bolt side so I can’t tell if it’s jeweled, but he says the barrel is rust blued and marked “SUPER”… It’s probably more like the one I’ve got here??? 
One thing I kind of like about mine is that the wood is plain as a plank and finished with the more “tan” colored wood filler they went to late in production, like many of the poor quality walnut machine checkered standard stocks from 1962-63. But IMHO all these guns (mine included) are suspect… Exception being s/n 500,000, which is also sort of a Super Grade Featherweight-Westerner. But it’s Style B carved, engraved and gold inlaid by John Kusmit, featured on the cover of late Winchester catalogs, and in the Cody Firearms Museum… Pretty sure that one’s legit!!!
My unsupported opinion is that by the 1960s Winchester just didn’t care any more… 
Best,
Lou
WACA 9519; Studying Pre-64 Model 70 Winchesters
Louis, After reviewing the Rule book, and picture 8-43. It shows the SGFW S/N 550474. A plastic butt plate, and no jeweling on the bolt body. While picture 8-30 a SGFW that states it is marked Super with a “browning” barrel. It also has the wrong recoil pad! Well, booth gus have concerns. The one pictured 8-43 with out the vented recoil pad is not very “special” to me! The one pictured 8-30 with the inproper recoil pad I would need to take a closer look at before I would make any more comments. I still think that Rules book is very good. It is over 40 years old now, and alot of new information has become available. I have found that not everything is correct in the book. Please don’t send me to Model 70 jail for saying this!
Hello to all whom have weighed in on this rifle. I have learned much from all the dialog and input on this rifle and thank you all. Someone suggested, Bo I believe, I contact the people whom I acquired this rifle from, and discussed the issues of this rifle. I did that today. They may be willing to take it back, with a full refund to me. Lou, I believe, wondered how deep I was into this rifle? I will tell you, no where near what a REAL SGFW in 98% condition is worth, which I am guessing, would be well North of $5K. In fact, I am into this rifle only a few hundred bucks more than what a ’63 Standard FWT 30-06 in this condition is bringing these days. So, I have to decide if I can live with what it is NOT, and appreciate what it IS , and use it. CHEERS. GRIZ.
Griz, again only my two cents, but if I had less than 1500 USD in the rifle, I’d be reluctant to return it.
I do have a bias in such matters because I bought my 52C for $1080 from a dealer who was very concerned it was a fake. Sights were wrong, the front sight ramp was brazed, not integral, the pistol grip cap was aftermarket, it wore a thin brown Pachmayr ventilated recoil pad. The checkering was correct but the execution was ragged.
Herb Houze looked at it and pronounced it genuine but messed with, believing the brazed ramp was aftermarket.
Our own Seewin straightened things out. The last serials had brazed ramps and plastic buttplates, the latter apparently unacceptable to a prior owner. Removing the grip cap revealed twin tooth marks where the little factory washer had once been installed ( and where its replacement’s teeth dropped right in, securing a now correct Winchester 21 grip cap.)
I bought the gun in 2002 or 2004, not sure. Almost 20 years passed before its true provenance was revealed. Right now, the only non-factory anomaly is the butt pad, which I prefer to a plastic buttplate.
I’d go very slow if you are in that gun so shallow. Time and attention often reveal things presently unknown and seemingly unknowable.
- Bill
WACA # 65205; life member, NRA; member, TGCA; member, TSRA; amateur preservationist
"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.
The gun is what it is, feel that $1,500.00 is a reasonable price if one is so inclined
FWIW, (supposed) real SG Fwts in 98% condition are presently commanding prices of $10,000 + or –
“If you can’t convince them, confuse them”
President Harry S. Truman
Well, $1500 is what I surmised, not.what Griz said. I’ve seen what look like 95% ’06 Featherweights knocked down for around $1200 or better on GB. The floor on standard and FW versions of the pre-64 ’06 is supported by buyers who intend to use them as well as show them off.
After all, that’s what the overwhelming majority of buyers wanted when those models were new and, as fascinating as one chambered in 250-3000 might be to us, the buying public knew what it wanted then and their sons and grandsons don’t apparently tire of them. I just don’t see nice Winchester ’06 rifles going begging.
If I were going to own a handsome rifle whose provenance would be questioned by everybody who was more than 20 miles from home, I’d want the gun to be a 30/06.
The bastard children of the English kings did better in life if they were comely and useful.
- Bill
WACA # 65205; life member, NRA; member, TGCA; member, TSRA; amateur preservationist
"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.
Hi Zebulon, Thanks again for your input and advice! Much appreciated! I am a bit over that number and still wrestling with keeping or returning. Have to decide in a day or two. It is a difficult decision as it is such a great looking rifle. GRIZ.
Griz57 said
Hi Zebulon, Thanks again for your input and advice! Much appreciated! I am a bit over that number and still wrestling with keeping or returning. Have to decide in a day or two. It is a difficult decision as it is such a great looking rifle. GRIZ.
I would still hold at 2K but I really like the rifle.
- Bill
WACA # 65205; life member, NRA; member, TGCA; member, TSRA; amateur preservationist
"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.
November 5, 2014
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Hi Griz-
I’m with Zeb in that I like the gun too… BUT… Even if we assume it’s a “parts gun” that wasn’t built that way by the factory (something of which I’m unsure)…
What is the value of the “parts”???
I’d have to actually see the gun before venturing a definite (personal) opinion, but assuming they are factory parts… A (legit) minty SG Featherweight stock is at least $1000 (probably more like $1250), even a late one with a plastic butt. A (legit) factory aluminum SG floor plate is at least $500 (probably more like $650). A minty 1963 vintage 30-06 SPRG barreled action is at least $900 (on sale at the local Walmart)…
Try buying any of those from pre64win.com at full retail… 
SO… That’s at least $2400 that a faker would pay you just so they could slap a 308 WIN (least common SG FWT chambering) barreled action into it and (probably) ask/get $10K…
Just so I’m not misunderstood, pre64win does NOT do fakes, and Justin and Andy Hale are Friends of mine…
It’s you call, of course…
Best,
Lou
WACA 9519; Studying Pre-64 Model 70 Winchesters
Gentlemen! ONCE AGAIN! THANK YOU for the input and insight. Will either of you be at the Cody Show in July? I live an hour and half from Cody. I may go to it for fun. If either of you were there, AND I keep this gun, I would bring it along for you to physically see. Cheers!
November 5, 2014
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Hi Griz-
I am planning to attend the Cody show, assuming that I can handle the 2000 mile drive… I hope to carry my latest “project”, Model 70 s/n 12, along so I can get some feedback/critique on it.
I also know that several Model 70 experts/collectors are going to be there. Most relevant is that one is planning to display a set of (4) Model 70 Super Grade Featherweights, one in each cataloged chambering. It would be an excellent opportunity to compare to your rifle should you decide to keep it.
Good Luck!!!
Lou
WACA 9519; Studying Pre-64 Model 70 Winchesters
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