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I may be purchasing a 1894 16 inch Winchester, .38-55, trapper rifle and wish to have your opinion/expertises on whether this is an authentic 1894 Trapper/short rifle. The front sight appears to be set back the proper 1 1/2 inch from the barrel’s end. The front sight appears to have been welded to the barrel and appears to be a professional weld/almost undectable. I understand the front sight should appear to be part of the barrel/one-with-the-barrel. In researching more information, the Cody Firearms records state that the 1894 is a carbine and no indication on the length of the barrel. Knowing that most of theseTrappers were exported to South America is it possible that the barrel’s length was not recorded at the factory?
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Jack,
If the factory letter does not mention the 16-inch length, that indicates that it originally was 20-inches long, and that it has been shortened after the fact. Additionally, if you can detect that the front sight post has been “welded” to the barrel, that it clue number two that it has been reworked. Winchester actually silver soldered the sight block to the barrel. The exported Trappers were nearly always in 30 WCF.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Is this a rifle or a carbine? A carbine would usually have had a 20″ barrel, and this one could have easily have been shortened. If a rifle, an easy way to detect if originally shorter than the normal 26″ is to see if it has a scaled down (shorter) forearm as well.
I would be curious as to the vintage of this ’94, as there are variations from different periods. There are quite a few ways to determine if it,s a real trapper, i.e., sight placement , location of the barrel script, forearm length, etc.. And is it a rifle or a carbine. Harry
W.A.C.A. life member, Marlin Collectors Assn. charter and life member, C,S.S.A. member and general gun nut.
Let’s start with correct terminology–hence, my question as to if rifle or carbine. A trapper model, by definition, would be a carbine. If it is a rifle with a shorter barrel, it is a short rifle, but not a trapper model.
mrcvs said
Let’s start with correct terminology–hence, my question as to if rifle or carbine. A trapper model, by definition, would be a carbine. If it is a rifle with a shorter barrel, it is a short rifle, but not a trapper model.
He stated in his first post that the Cody info listed it as a carbine.
Jack stoll wrote:
Knowing that most of theseTrappers were exported to South America….
I have read this “bit of information” many times before but does anyone have any real data to prove that this is so or is it just a romantic idea. Much like the idea that the “trapper” sized carbines were actually used by trappers at all. Most of the Model 1892 trappers are in 44 WCF caliber. If you are shooting small fur bearing animals at a distance of 3 feet a 25-20 will absolutely do the job and leave a smaller hole which will not detract from the value of the pelt. Lots of romance. Not much data.
Michael
Model 1892 / Model 61 Collector, Research, Valuation
I like trappers, especially the 94s
so, a quick primer on 92/94 trappers:
The muzzle OD should be .605 +/- .005, Identical to a standard 20-inch barrel. Front sight was never welded in place, they were dovetailed & silver brazed up until around 1916 or so, after that they were machined as part of the barrel.
On with the silver brazed sights, they were installed oversize and final machined/polished. If you can see the solder line….probably a fake.
Factory front sight blocks were .332 long and .280 wide, the slot is 1/16 wide.
I’ m always cautious about 16 inch trappers, as anything shorter will need to be sent in to the ATF, more fakes with the 16 inchers than all the others.
16 inch barreled carbines most of the time have the shorter forend. Carbines with the shorter forend have a special rear forend band, where the screw hole is .030 lower than on a standard 92/94 band (very hard to fake).
Quite often the rear sight dovetail is move closer to the receive, this was to increase the sighting plane.
On 15 inch and shorter barrels, the address is forward of the rear barrel band, there is not enough room to place it in its normal location. BUT…with the latter carbines, with the address in italics, it will still be in it’ s normal location: rear of the back band on the side of the barrel.
Mike,
Sorry, if this is a little off topic, but can you give exact specs and measurements for a 22inch barrel 1886 short rifle as well? Especially the correct forearm lenght is very important to me…
I have searched but with no success so far… Thank you very much!!
Speaking of terminology, I have a question. Someone once took issue with the name “Border Rifle” because Winchester never made a Border Rifle. Did Winchester ever make a Trapper? Or is that too just a colloquialism?
Huck Riley said
Speaking of terminology, I have a question. Someone once took issue with the name “Border Rifle” because Winchester never made a Border Rifle. Did Winchester ever make a Trapper? Or is that too just a colloquialism?
I feel confident in saying Winchester never used the term, “Trapper” when it came to a short barreled firearm they manufactured.
While we’re talking terms, is it accurate to say Winchester didn’t use the term, “Deluxe”? At least when it comes to antique and vintage lever (and centerfire semi-auto) rifles. Shotguns, I know less about. I know they used the term, “fancy.”
Huck,
Winchester did not use the term “Trapper”. They simply referred to them as Carbines. Oddly, they did not even mention the shorter “Trapper” length barrels in their catalogs until the 1920s, when the added the 15-inch as a factory optional order (catalog no. G9411).
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
steve004 said
While we’re talking terms, is it accurate to say Winchester didn’t use the term, “Deluxe”? At least when it comes to antique and vintage lever (and centerfire semi-auto) rifles. Shotguns, I know less about. I know they used the term, “fancy.”
Steve,
Yes, it is accurate to say that. Winchester used the term “Fancy” up to the late 1920s, then in the 1930s, they began referring to them as “Special” or in the case of the Model 64, a “Deer” rifle.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
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