The biggest issue I see with a half-round is the accuracy impairment with the combination of full mag.  Winchester used a standard front hanger and the reduced barrel dia turned round , bent the Mag upwards in a banana shape putting an unnatural force on the barrel. This is best observed in a half round take-down full mag configuration . When you unscrew the mag it is extremely tight because of the eccentric force. I think this is the reason for the more common short mag configuration with the half-round. I think Winchester used the standard hanger to prevent an (unsightly ?) gap  that would be seen using a hanger that would line up straight between mag and reduced barrel dia

Phil

deerhunter said

After looking at the photos on the Cabelas gun, the take-down lever doesn’t seem quite right to me.  Shouldn’t the take-down lever be in about the 2 o’clock position when tightened?  This one has the take-down lever in the 6 o’clock position when tightened.  Isn’t this type of lever and latch found only on the full magazine rifles?  It seems the magazine tube has possibly been shortened from a full magazine??  Am I mistaken? 

 

Here’s a 1/2 magazine take-down with the lever in the 2 o’clock position, which is what I’m familiar with seeing:

http://www.cabelas.com/product/Winchester-Model-1894-30-WCF-Take-Down-1906/1659184.uts?Ntk=GunLibrary&searchPath=%2Fcatalog%2Fsearch.cmd%3Fform_state%3DsearchForm%26N%3D0%26Ntk%3DGunLibrary%26Ntt%3Dwinchester%2Btake-down%26x%3D0%26y%3D0&Ntt=winchester+take-down

Yes, you are mistaken, but many people make this same mistake, so don’t feel too badly!  Lots of the early TD rifles were made with the lever facing down in the 6 o’clock position.  Absolutely correct.  I have seen many, many under serial numbers 120,000 (if I recall correctly) like this.  If you compare the TD lever on a full mag rifle to this one – because you raised the possibility maybe the tube was shortened – you will see that it is not even the same variation. The TD lever on a FM rifle is unscalloped – completely flat – as there is no issue there of the lever / crank needing to be able to clear the barrel.  On rifles with shorter than full length magazine tubes, a scalloped crank is used which provides clearance to be able to turn the magazine tube without the lever interfering with the barrel.  And as you noted, those usually lie about the 2 o’clock position when tightened up.  You can see these two variations in Bob Renneberg’s Model 94 Book – 2nd Edition – on pg. 24.  Then there is what I call this third variation, which seems to appear on many early TD rifles with shorter than full length magtubes.  This variation is similar to the scalloped version, but it additionally has that same small extension that fits into a crescent shaped recess in the underside of the barrel, which the unscalloped crank found on the full magazine guns has.  This variation is the one seen on this Cabelas rifle, as well you can see it on a rifle in Bob’s book on p.81.  I have one myself, in the 23,000 s/n range, very close the one in the Cabelas photo.  All I have seen so far with this type of set up, have had low serial numbers, like I said, I think the highest I saw was around 120,000 ish, I would have to go back and find my notes.  Hope this helps.

Matt

deerhunter said

Thanks Matt.  I appreciate your education on this subject.  I feel a bit foolish since I actually have a copy of Renneberg’s book, but neglected to research myself.  I didn’t realize the different variations on the earlier take-downs.  I also called Cabelas regarding the contents of the factory letter that goes along with this rifle and everything confirmed its current configuration.  In your opinion, is the configuration of the Cabelas gun somewhat unusual/rare?  If you don’t mind me asking, what’s your opinion about the asking price of $4,799.99?  From past posts on this forum, it’s evident that 1894 take-downs are your primary interest and area of expertise and I would very much value your opinion.  At first, I was thinking it was priced a bit high, but maybe the price isn’t all that bad considering it’s an “antique” take-down in pretty decent condition and somewhat of an unusual configuration.  Per the Cabelas guy on the phone, the bore is excellent as well.  I’ve been debating on having the gun transferred to a local Cabelas and taking a closer look in person–I don’t have an “antique” 1894 in my collection…yet.

Don

Hi Don. You are welcome, but I don’t know about educating anyone, I’m not really one of the resident experts around here, but it is something I did do some looking into given my focus on 94 TD rifles.  WRT the rifle in question at Cabelas, it is a nice looking rifle, and antique 94s are not that easy to come by, certainly up here, may be different where you are. They are few and far between up in Canada.  In my opinion, yes, I would say for that price, I would want to see some more condition, but again, antique TD 94s aren’t awefully plentiful either.  As for the configuration, myself, I would not call it rare – I try to use that term sparingly – but certainly it is not common.  From what I have read, Cabelas often over pays for guns, and there is often room to negotiate with them, you may certainly get it at a better price.  It is a nice rifle.  Bert – who co-authored the Red Book of Values, may be able to give you a better idea of value.  Always nice to have an antique 94 in the collection, and this is a nice looking rifle.

Matt