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April 28, 2009
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Hi All,
Take a look at this beautiful M70 I just picked up! It’s from the Winchester Custom Shop, octagon barrel, engraved, gold… and most of all it’s serial #70. It’s a keeper!
April 28, 2009
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Well, I can’t figure out how to post pics from my phone… anyone able to help?
thanks
Mike
April 15, 2005
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mikecsa said
Well, I can’t figure out how to post pics from my phone… anyone able to help?
thanks
Mike
Posting Pictures – 2024 | Forum Rules and FAQs | Forum | Winchester CollectorWinchester Collector
Bert – Admin
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
April 28, 2009
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November 5, 2014
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Mike-
If you want to send the photos to me at [email protected] or [email protected] I can post them for you. Both these addresses have a max cumulative size of 20 MB for attachments, so you’d have to size them appropriately or send multiple e-mails. I can re-size for this site…
I’d love to see you photos…
Lou
WACA 9519; Studying Pre-64 Model 70 Winchesters
November 5, 2014
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Photos for Mike…
WACA 9519; Studying Pre-64 Model 70 Winchesters
April 15, 2005
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What caliber is it? While I like the octagon barrel, is it truly Winchester’s work (I am not seeing any factory markings on the barrel)?
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
April 28, 2009
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Bert H. said
What caliber is it? While I like the octagon barrel, is it truly Winchester’s work (I am not seeing any factory markings on the barrel)?
Bert
Hi, the 5th pic shows the 2 proofs on top of the barrel where it meets the receiver. 1 is the Winchester proof the other is the custom shop proof. Barrel is marked Winchester as well, I’ve got a pic of that side of barrel if needed. It’s a 270 Weatherby Magnum, it may be one of the rifles pictured in the catalogs from the 90’s showcasing the custom shop options when they reintroduced the classic pre64 action again. I’m going to have to dig out my Winchester catalogs. The serial is G70, I doubt it ended up on it by chance especially since the caliber has 70 in it as well… The “Ultimate Classic” is the custom shop rifle you could order with an octagon barrel, but it was introduced later in the 90s and they usually have a 4 digit serial since later production and they were stamped ultimate classic on the bolt side of the barrel.
thanks
Mike
November 5, 2014
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One more photo from Mike. Barrel marking…
WACA 9519; Studying Pre-64 Model 70 Winchesters
April 15, 2005
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I like it, but I would very much prefer one that is chambered for the old 7×57 M/M cartridge 
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
November 5, 2014
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Not wanting to distract, but I’d’ve figured that Bert would prefer pre-64 (1936) Model 70 s/n 70. 
According to Bob Porter’s records, it was a typical 30 GOV’T’06 Standard Rifle like most of the first couple hundred M70s. He saw it in Las Vegas in 1992. I’ve not seen it and do not have pics, just the survey entry…
But having M70 Classic s/n G70 is pretty cool!!! I have to imagine it was made for some VIP to have that serial number. As I understand it, the Custom Shop Classics are relatively hard to date with certainty. When the CRF Classics were re-introduced they started with S/N G10,000 for regular production, while S/Ns G1 through G9,999 were reserved for the Custom Shop. In other words, S/N G70 (Custom Shop) was not necessarily made before S/N G10,000 (regular production).
Given that (at least the “old”) Winchester would reserve “special” serial numbers for “special” firearms, it would not surprise me if G70 was used for a VIP rifle, not merely the “next guy” to place an order after the guy who ordered S/N 69. For example, Winchester used Model 70 S/N 500,000 to build a rifle they intended to present to President John F Kennedy. Sadly, due to the events of November 22, 1963, it was never presented. 
But it is now in the Cody Firearms museum for the rest of us to see!!!
Best,
Lou
WACA 9519; Studying Pre-64 Model 70 Winchesters
April 15, 2005
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Louis Luttrell said
Not wanting to distract, but I’d’ve figured that Bert would prefer pre-64 (1936) Model 70 s/n 70. According to Bob Porter’s records, it was a typical 30 GOV’T’06 Standard Rifle like most of the first couple hundred M70s. He saw it in Las Vegas in 1992. I’ve not seen it and do not have pics, just the survey entry…But having M70 Classic s/n G70 is pretty cool!!! I have to imagine it was made for some VIP to have that serial number. As I understand it, the Custom Shop Classics are relatively hard to date with certainty. When the CRF Classics were re-introduced they started with S/N G10,000 for regular production, while S/Ns G1 through G9,999 were reserved for the Custom Shop. In other words, S/N G70 (Custom Shop) was not necessarily made before S/N G10,000 (regular production).
Given that (at least the “old”) Winchester would reserve “special” serial numbers for “special” firearms, it would not surprise me if G70 was used for a VIP rifle, not merely the “next guy” to place an order after the guy who ordered S/N 69. For example, Winchester used Model 70 S/N 500,000 to build a rifle they intended to present to President John F Kennedy. Sadly, due to the events of November 22, 1963, it was never presented. But it is now in the Cody Firearms museum for the rest of us to see!!!
Best,
Lou
I have the 30-06 covered nicely… (1) a 1927 production Model 54, (2) a 1966 Remington Model 742 150th Anniversary edition, and (3) a 1924 production Springfield Model 1903.
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
June 19, 2009
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Hi Mike,
Here is some information that I hope you will find useful.
I have nothing to verify it, but I suspect that your rifle may have been custom ordered by Peter & Patty Murray. They were likely the customs shops single largest private customer. They were known to have ordered numerous very unusually configured custom shop rifles.
I’ve attached an image of the Murray’s M70 S/N G11 from the August 2004 RIA auction in which a large portion of the Murray collection was sold.
Also, is a link to Custom shop rifle S/N G18 that was sold in a Morphy (probably Julia at that time) auction in October 2016.
https://auctions.morphyauctions.com/LotDetail.aspx?inventoryid=432541
This at least demonstrates that Winchester was indeed building M70 custom rifles with low “G” serial numbers in close proximity to yours in or around 1990.
I hope this helps.
Ned
February 17, 2022
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1ned1 said
Hi Mike,
Here is some information that I hope you will find useful.
I have nothing to verify it, but I suspect that your rifle may have been custom ordered by Peter & Patty Murray. They were likely the customs shops single largest private customer. They were known to have ordered numerous very unusually configured custom shop rifles.
I’ve attached an image of the Murray’s M70 S/N G11 from the August 2004 RIA auction in which a large portion of the Murray collection was sold.Also, is a link to Custom shop rifle S/N G18 that was sold in a Morphy (probably Julia at that time) auction in October 2016.
https://auctions.morphyauctions.com/LotDetail.aspx?inventoryid=432541
This at least demonstrates that Winchester was indeed building M70 custom rifles with low “G” serial numbers in close proximity to yours in or around 1990.
I hope this helps.
Ned
Ned, this is some interesting info here about the Murrays’. It mite explain the model 71 that was sold a year or so ago that was chambered in 45-70 that we kinda poo-pooed on as a fake because the barrel had a ’51 barrel date, as follows from the auction listing.
Really wish I could have seen it!
April 15, 2005
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oldcrankyyankee said
1ned1 said
Hi Mike,
Here is some information that I hope you will find useful.
I have nothing to verify it, but I suspect that your rifle may have been custom ordered by Peter & Patty Murray. They were likely the customs shops single largest private customer. They were known to have ordered numerous very unusually configured custom shop rifles.
I’ve attached an image of the Murray’s M70 S/N G11 from the August 2004 RIA auction in which a large portion of the Murray collection was sold.
Also, is a link to Custom shop rifle S/N G18 that was sold in a Morphy (probably Julia at that time) auction in October 2016.
https://auctions.morphyauctions.com/LotDetail.aspx?inventoryid=432541
This at least demonstrates that Winchester was indeed building M70 custom rifles with low “G” serial numbers in close proximity to yours in or around 1990.
I hope this helps.
Ned
Ned, this is some interesting info here about the Murrays’. It mite explain the model 71 that was sold a year or so ago that was chambered in 45-70 that we kinda poo-pooed on as a fake because the barrel had a ’51 barrel date, as follows from the auction listing.
https://live.amoskeagauction.com/lot-details/index/catalog/97/lot/62085/Extremely-Rare-Winchester-Model-71-Deluxe-Rifle-in-45-70-Caliber?url=%2Fauctions%2Fcatalog%2Fid%2F97%3Fpage%3D1%26view%3Dlist%26catm%3D2%26order%3Dorder_num%26xclosed%3D0%26featured%3D0%26key%3Dwinchester
Really wish I could have seen it!
Based on several of what I view as major production incongruities with that Model 71 rifle, I am not of the opinion that there is any valid explanation other than it is a “FAKE”.
The first unexplainable issue is the caliber marking. Specifically, Winchester did not on any previous models (including the small number of legitimate Model 71 rifles made in 45-70) ever use “GOV’T” for the 45-70 caliber rifles and muskets. All of them were simply marked “45-70”.
The next issue I see is the barrel marking type on that rifle is the Type 1. Winchester replaced the Type 1 barrel marking with the Type 2 marking early in the year 1947 (in the 25180 – 25200 serial range). The transition period between the two different barrel markings was very abrupt (short), with the latest serial number documented with a Type 1 address being 25679. The serial number on the rifle in question is 37911, which makes in a notable outlier.
The last issue I will point out is the fact that all of the legitimate (authentic) 45-70 caliber Model 71 rifles found & verified thus far were manufactured in the years 1936 & 1937 (serial number range 3314 – 10926) and with barrels dates “35” & “36”. Again, serial number 37911 w/barrel date “51” is a very significant outlier.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
April 28, 2009
Offline
1ned1 said
Hi Mike,
Here is some information that I hope you will find useful.
I have nothing to verify it, but I suspect that your rifle may have been custom ordered by Peter & Patty Murray. They were likely the customs shops single largest private customer. They were known to have ordered numerous very unusually configured custom shop rifles.
I’ve attached an image of the Murray’s M70 S/N G11 from the August 2004 RIA auction in which a large portion of the Murray collection was sold.Also, is a link to Custom shop rifle S/N G18 that was sold in a Morphy (probably Julia at that time) auction in October 2016.
https://auctions.morphyauctions.com/LotDetail.aspx?inventoryid=432541
This at least demonstrates that Winchester was indeed building M70 custom rifles with low “G” serial numbers in close proximity to yours in or around 1990.
I hope this helps.
Ned
Wow, what rabbit hole I went down looking at Winchesters associated with the Murray’s…A pair of big bore m70 target rifles special ordered by them…. Oh my …. Take my money.
There’s a big hole in collecting for me, I will never have the opportunity to order my own build from the Winchester custom shop… I was a teen in the 90s who was happy to afford gas and McDonalds for the weekend. I’ve almost solely switched from collecting pre64 70 super grades to buying up all the custom shop 70s I can get my greedy paws on.
thanks
Mike
November 19, 2006
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Although not my collecting focus, I have been intrigued by some of the post-63 Model 70’s that came out of the custom shop. I suppose some were specifically ordered and some were produced as part of a small inventory on the speculation they would sell. By the way, the special chamberings have particularly in caught my attention.
Here’s some examples I have seen. Features like octagon barrels, half octagon barrels, stainless finish, left-hand actions and so on… I’d love to own all of these:
https://lsbauctions.com/winchester-custom-shop-model-70-358-sta-24-stainless-bolt-action-rifle/
https://www.gunauction.com/buy/16963890
https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail/60/3327/winchester-70-rifle-470-capstick
Maybe the original poster does own all of these 
February 17, 2022
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Bert H. said
oldcrankyyankee said
1ned1 said
Hi Mike,
Here is some information that I hope you will find useful.
I have nothing to verify it, but I suspect that your rifle may have been custom ordered by Peter & Patty Murray. They were likely the customs shops single largest private customer. They were known to have ordered numerous very unusually configured custom shop rifles.
I’ve attached an image of the Murray’s M70 S/N G11 from the August 2004 RIA auction in which a large portion of the Murray collection was sold.
Also, is a link to Custom shop rifle S/N G18 that was sold in a Morphy (probably Julia at that time) auction in October 2016.
https://auctions.morphyauctions.com/LotDetail.aspx?inventoryid=432541
This at least demonstrates that Winchester was indeed building M70 custom rifles with low “G” serial numbers in close proximity to yours in or around 1990.
I hope this helps.
Ned
Ned, this is some interesting info here about the Murrays’. It mite explain the model 71 that was sold a year or so ago that was chambered in 45-70 that we kinda poo-pooed on as a fake because the barrel had a ’51 barrel date, as follows from the auction listing.
https://live.amoskeagauction.com/lot-details/index/catalog/97/lot/62085/Extremely-Rare-Winchester-Model-71-Deluxe-Rifle-in-45-70-Caliber?url=%2Fauctions%2Fcatalog%2Fid%2F97%3Fpage%3D1%26view%3Dlist%26catm%3D2%26order%3Dorder_num%26xclosed%3D0%26featured%3D0%26key%3Dwinchester
Really wish I could have seen it!
Based on several of what I view as major production incongruities with that Model 71 rifle, I am not of the opinion that there is any valid explanation other than it is a “FAKE”.
The first unexplainable issue is the caliber marking. Specifically, Winchester did not on any previous models (including the small number of legitimate Model 71 rifles made in 45-70) ever use “GOV’T” for the 45-70 caliber rifles and muskets. All of them were simply marked “45-70”.
The next issue I see is the barrel marking type on that rifle is the Type 1. Winchester replaced the Type 1 barrel marking with the Type 2 marking early in the year 1947 (in the 25180 – 25200 serial range). The transition period between the two different barrel markings was very abrupt (short), with the latest serial number documented with a Type 1 address being 25679. The serial number on the rifle in question is 37911, which makes in a notable outlier.
The last issue I will point out is the fact that all of the legitimate (authentic) 45-70 caliber Model 71 rifles found & verified thus far were manufactured in the years 1936 & 1937 (serial number range 3314 – 10926) and with barrels dates “35” & “36”. Again, serial number 37911 w/barrel date “51” is a very significant outlier.
Bert
Bert, I wasn’t questioning the validity of that 71, simply meant that after reading ned’s post it appeared to me that the Murray’s could afford to have it built.
