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March 31, 2009
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Zebulon said
If memory serves, 4064 was around in the Twenties, if not earlier, so it would have been available to all the wildcatters that were necking down the 250 Savage case and trying to get 4000 fps out of it.Best,
Sharpe’s book shows 4759, 4320, 3031, 4198, 4227 and 4064 using 40 grain to 65 grain bullets. One of the 40 grain bullet loads lists 4,635 fps.
BUT, remember the modern version of these powders are usually hotter than the older versions. When using old data it is real important to start low and work up. You must use a chronograph.
4064 is shown using 55 and 63 grain bullets. 3,983 fps and 2,975 fps respectively. The book has almost 3 pages about this cartridge. Compared to the half page for the K Hornet.
Sharpe says this cartridge will hold accuracy from 100 out to 250 yds. I have no way of calculating the 200 yd. retained energy but I doubt it is enough for deer.
November 1, 2013
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Chuck said I have no way of calculating the 200 yd. retained energy but I doubt it is enough for deer.
More to consider than energy, chiefly bullet construction.
March 31, 2009
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clarence said
Chuck said I have no way of calculating the 200 yd. retained energy but I doubt it is enough for deer.
More to consider than energy, chiefly bullet construction.
You’re right. Just as important as bullet placement. That is why I stress accuracy when hunting. Especially passed 100 yds.
January 20, 2023
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Concur.
- Bill
WACA # 65205; life member, NRA; member, TGCA; member, TSRA; amateur preservationist
"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.
January 20, 2023
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Well, the ’52 revised edition of Sharpe’s Complete Guide to Handloading showed up in today’s mail, along with a reprint of Part 3 of the ’49 edition republished by Palladium Press in 2010. For those still interested, I think I’ve discovered in these texts the source of confusion about the 22 Varminter’s shoulder angle which, by now, we all understand was 28 degrees, not the 26 degrees 30 minutes of the parent 250-3000 Savage case:
On page 191 of the ’49 reprint (and repeated in the 1952 Supplement), Sharpe discusses the history and development of the Varminter and makes this statement:
“Thus was born the Varminter. This is made by necking down the 250/3000 Savage case, which, in spite of its rather small capacity as compared with the 220 Swift, has always been an extremely efficient cartridge. The rather abrupt shoulder angle of the Savage case was retained in that development. I consider this shoulder angle of major importance in the performance of any cartridge [emphasis by poster].”
Sharpe’s statement was carelessly written for someone so meticulous – he intended to emphasize the parent and child cases both featured a “rather abrupt shoulder angle” — not necessarily the same, exact angle. We know this is so because, on page 192, Sharpe says this:
“Gebby tells me that the 28 degree shoulder slope contributes to the all-around performance of the Varminter more than any other single item in its design.”
The Shooting Times writer picked out Sharpe’s single sentence on Page 191 and didn’t bother to read Page 192. A couple of his adherents then further messed up by inaccurately quoting Sharpe’s paragraph, to the effect the Savage case featured a 26.5 degree shoulder. Nowhere on Page 191 or 192 does Sharpe even mention the exact degree of the Savage case shoulder, only that it was “abrupt.”
Such grevious distortions of wildcatting history should earn the distorters at least one visit from Gebby’s ghost in the small hours of the night, to deliver a whack on their ears with something hard.
- Bill
WACA # 65205; life member, NRA; member, TGCA; member, TSRA; amateur preservationist
"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.
January 20, 2023
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TXGunNut said
Fascinating discussion, gentlemen. Interesting cartridge. I dabbled with it a bit one hot summer a few decades back. My rifle’s twist was a bit too fast for the new “SX” bullets and now and then one would “disappear” between the Chrony and my target. Another shooter asked how long it took my barrel to cool off, I figured it would only take a few days.Did Gebby use 4064 in his 22 Varminter?
Mike
I think Chuck has already answered the inquiry but I promised Mike I’d see what I could find in Sharpe’s text. Here’s the chart Sharpe included in the ’49 volume of Complete Handloading etc. [As experienced handloaders, we all know not to take the quantities literally. Only my old former classmate, Dynamite Dave, did that and he once 
got famous for destroying not one, but two, Ruger Super Blackhawks.]
- Bill
WACA # 65205; life member, NRA; member, TGCA; member, TSRA; amateur preservationist
"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.
November 7, 2015
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Thanks, Bill. My load notes reveal I was dabbling with a new (at the time) powder called Varget. Propaganda of the day (1995) indicated it was a short version of 4064 and they were claiming 4135fps with a 40 grain bullet. I came within a few fps of the advertised velocity early that spring but when temps got over 100 that July the velocity jumped over 4400fps and bullets started disappearing. My best groups were using Varget powder and a Nosler 40gr at a comparatively sedate 3800fps.
Mike
January 20, 2023
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Mike,
Better the bullet than the bolt!
- Bill
WACA # 65205; life member, NRA; member, TGCA; member, TSRA; amateur preservationist
"I have seen wicked men and fools, a great many of both, and I believe they both get paid in the end, but the fools first." -- David Balfour, narrator and protagonist of the novel, Kidnapped, by Robert Louis Stevenson.
