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June 1, 2023
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I ran into this listing the other day, and I find it quite suspicious.
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/1124149845
Some questions & observations for the experts:
1. Is it likely that the Winchester records would miss the fact that a rifle is a Take Down?
2. How likely is it that the full length magazine was also missed by Winchester records?
3. Do the finish on both wood and metal seem to be re-done? (I think so.)
4. Does the serial number appear to be in the correct font for a rifle from 1899, or has it been altered ?
5. Why would there be a WP proof mark on the receiver of this rifle, years before Winchester applied such a mark? (I can’t tell if the barrel is also proofed.)
6. Is the barrel mounted sight from a much later era?
7. Shouldn’t the hammer and lever on this rifle be case colored?
8. How is it the grip cap is so beat up and yet the wood remains pristine?
Of course, the seller offers no explanation for these many issues. I’m interested to see what all of you think, but for me this rifle does not pass the sniff test. Your thoughts?
BRP
June 12, 2013
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It seems several questionable items show up by this seller. You are correct many of the items you mentioned are not correct.
April 15, 2005
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1. Not likely, but possible. It is also possible that the CFM person (Angela) missed seeing the “TD” notation in the crowed ledger entry for that rifle.
2. Extremely unlikely, and in this case, the barrel assembly is positively not original to that rifle. Winchester did not move the caliber designation stamp to the left side of the barrel until late 1907 – early 1908. In the year 1899, the caliber markings were always on the top of the barrel (12 o’clock position).
3. Positively refinished. The receiver frame was heavily buffed, polished and reblued, the barrel definitely reblued (it has a purple tint to the bluing), and Yes, the hammer and lever should be case color finished.
4. Serial number is correct.
5. The person who refinished it ignorantly stamped the proof mark on the frame ring (and they did it before rebluing receiver).
6. The barrel itself is a much later item.
7. Yes.
8. The wood is not pristine… instead, it has been sanded and refinished (and is now slightly undersized to the receiver frame & tangs). The checkering has been refreshed (recut).
That rifle is atrocious, and it stinks to high heaven 
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
November 19, 2006
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From a distance it looks pretty nice…
Also, one year away from being antique (“!”)
March 2, 2016
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Seems like someone liked it.
Sold for 4,075.00.
Old school wood and metal - when firearms were tools and required skill and craftsmanship to create.
June 1, 2023
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As P.T. Barnum said, “There’s one born every minute.”
There seems to be a very large number of buyers, as witnessed by auction results over the past few years, who either don’t know —- or perhaps more importantly don’t care —- whether or not a Winchester is original. This group seems to be the driving force behind the rising auction prices being achieved. In spite of what any of us may think the value of a Winchester ought to be, the auction results are showing what a rifle is worth to a large number of buyers.
BRP
June 1, 2023
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And now to add to the intrigue of the rifle in question, even though it was allegedly sold for $4,075 on 14 September 2025, the exact same rifle (as identified by serial number and identical pics) was listed for sale 24 hours later, on Guns International by the exact same seller, and at $8,700 — which is more than double what the rifle had allegedly sold for. Here’s the GI link:
Hmmm, now why would someone who just “sold” a rifle in a no-reserve auction choose to list it on another website? Why would he even have the rifle to sell, unless the gunbroker “sale” was all just so much theatre. This activity has been reported to Gunbroker, for all the good that will do.
Caveat emptor!
BRP
April 15, 2005
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The goods news is that some unsuspecting buyer did not get taken to the cleaners on that gun. I note that the description of the gun has been changed to state that the consignee sent it to Turnbull to be restored… another B.S. story! The barrel is an obvious later production factory part. Further, Turnbull would have restored it to the factory letter, and they would have repaired (or replaced) the forend stock to eliminate that ugly missing chunk of wood on the left front corner. Yes, that rifle has been “restored” but not by Turnbull’s shop.
Something I did not mention before… that rifle was factory fitted with a black hard rubber butt plate, but it now wears a checkered steel butt plate.
Dollars to donuts the seller is either actively reading our comments, or someone he knows told him about our conversation on this forum.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
November 7, 2015
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Bert H. said
The goods news is that some unsuspecting buyer did not get taken to the cleaners on that gun. I note that the description of the gun has been changed to state that the consignee sent it to Turnbull to be restored… another B.S. story! The barrel is an obvious later production factory part. Further, Turnbull would have restored it to the factory letter, and they would have repaired (or replaced) the forend stock to eliminate that ugly missing chunk of wood on the left front corner. Yes, that rifle has been “restored” but not by Turnbull’s shop.
Something I did not mention before… that rifle was factory fitted with a black hard rubber butt plate, but it now wears a checkered steel butt plate.
Dollars to donuts the seller is either actively reading our comments, or someone he knows told him about our conversation on this forum.
Bert
As I read this post the information at the bottom of the page said there were six members and 633 guests. I see many more during the day, not hard to believe the seller is reading what we say. Maybe the buyer read it and called the seller on his deception and the seller wisely voided the sale. I agree this “restoration” is not up to Turnbull’s standards and I understand the good folks at Turnbull will verify whether or not they worked on the item if you will ask.
Caveat emptor indeed. If you can’t be smart listen to smart friends.
Mike
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