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I’m fascinated with Winchester history in general and especially with history of Winchesters in my collection so any provenance such as offered by Cody Letters is of considerable interest/value to me.
I have letters for all my Winchesters and while not saying I would never purchase a Winchester that’s not ‘letterable’ it’s certainly a very strong consideration and I do feel a factory letter adds monetary value.
So I’m curious as to the importance other Winchester enthusiasts put on Cody Factory Letters?
Very important?
Somewhat import?
Couldn’t care less about a Cody Factory Letter?
Winchester Model 1873 44-40 circa 1886
Online
Kevin,
It depends… For a special order Winchester, with non standard features, the letter is somewhat important. If the Winchester in question is a plain (standard) gun, the letter is somewhat less important. Further, I try to refrain from relying solely on a Factory letter to verify the authenticity of specific Winchester.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Bert H. said
If the Winchester in question is a plain (standard) gun, the letter is somewhat less important.
I’d say that if the letter tells you nothing about the gun that you can’t see with your own eyes, namely, that’s it’s what’s the catalog says a standard model should be, you’ve wasted your money in buying the letter. Might be somewhat interesting to find out that it had been returned for R&R (not likely), but even then you wouldn’t know what had been done.
If I’m buying a gun (1873), I check to make sure it letters. I don’t want to try to sell a gun later and have to explain the disparity. I do own a gun that does not letter clean. Its a rifle in 44 S&W American and letters as a carbine but is documented in Inventory of the Winchester repeating Arms Company Firearms Reference Collection as it is now. Most of the time you can spots a modified gun but with the 73’s with long barrels it was quite easy to trim to standard length since you didn’t have to blue any metal.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
Kevin,
Winchester letters are somewhat important to me as I don’t have any, but I do have some slide action rifles from the 1900 to 1908 era that are in a gap or just outside of the letterable range. Some are in relatively high condition with special sights and others in lesser condition with standard features, but value wise, I doubt that I’d consider reducing any estimated cost that I might place on them. I might, however, end up paying a premium on one that does have a letter if I wanted it, most especially if it had a lot of special features.
James
Bert H. said
Kevin,It depends… For a special order Winchester, with non standard features, the letter is somewhat important. If the Winchester in question is a plain (standard) gun, the letter is somewhat less important. Further, I try to refrain from relying solely on a Factory letter to verify the authenticity of specific Winchester.
Bert
I agree with Bert. I know for me as a newer collector(5yrs) if I’m buying a high value gun with several options, I personally want confirmation of the original configuration & options do a letter is somewhat important.
I’m not confident enough in my evaluation skills even at this point after 5yrs to purchase a high value rifle without the letter but keep in mind it also narrows down the availability to only rifles that can be lettered & missing out on a lot of nice post 353,999 ser 94’s and post 120795 ser 86’s.
AG
AG, after awhile your ability to judge a gun will get better and the letters for a standard gun become less important. Letters only help real guns but can hide bad guns. Remember guns are made to fit a letter all of the time. That is why becoming knowledgeable is always best.
One other thing that a lot of Members don’t talk about is supporting our resources. Money for letters helps fund the Museum and all of the good that is being done for all of us.
Chuck has a good point, the shipping ledgers are a valuable asset of the Museum and letters are part of the membership. In my world, a search before buying and a letter after. I have had good surprises and bad, I’d rather have those before I count money. A mistake in the ledger of a honest gun affects it’s value. T/R
January 26, 2011
Offline
As several of you stated, the more non-standard features there are, the more valuable the letter is to me. I pretty much have letters for all of my rifles, but I have very few standard configuration guns. One thing that really appeals to me is a letter with a prominent collectors name on it, or better yet, a good friend. Sometimes we have letters from friends that have passed on, which is a nice way to remember them. I find them interesting, for the most part. I just wish they were as cool as the Colt letters with shipping destinations, retail stores, and names. Now those are fantastic.
~Gary~
I recently received letters for my Winchesters, some are from the turn of the century, and some are antique, which to me is a good thing.
Documenting that it is an antique with the letter is additional proof of what the serial number tells it is.
WACA #11669
NRA Distinguished Life Member
TR said
Chuck has a good point, the shipping ledgers are a valuable asset of the Museum and letters are part of the membership. In my world, a search before buying and a letter after. I have had good surprises and bad, I’d rather have those before I count money. A mistake in the ledger of a honest gun affects it’s value. T/R
I’ve been lucky, no bad news but all of my guns that have special features letter that way. Occasionally I find a gun that has some special sights added. Upgraded period correct sights are a plus in my eyes. Like TR said I usually, if possible, get the data from the museum by phone, text or email before I buy a fancy gun. When selling the letter sure can’t hurt and can make the sale easier. It might not add value to the gun but it helps.
Bert H. said
Kevin,It depends… For a special order Winchester, with non standard features, the letter is somewhat important. If the Winchester in question is a plain (standard) gun, the letter is somewhat less important. Further, I try to refrain from relying solely on a Factory letter to verify the authenticity of specific Winchester.
Bert
I agree, it’s just a good starting point for your research to authenticate.
Winchester Model 1873 44-40 circa 1886
Kevin Jones said
I agree, it’s just a good starting point for your research to authenticate.
And if you are a Cody Firearms member you can get some free work sheets as part of your membership. Then if you wish to go further you can buy the letter at a reduced Member price.
I addition to all the above input, I feel the factory letters are a cool addition to a Winchester collection. I probably go a little overboard in my collection as I try to obtain, letters, antique Winchester ammo and anything else I can find related to a specific rifle.
I display my collection pieces so typically my friends/visitors seem to be quite interested in them. They typically find the factory letters quite interesting and cool.
Winchester Model 1873 44-40 circa 1886
There are only two reasons I can think of to not get a factory letter: 1. Money; 2. You don’t care.
If you are poor, or if you are rich but have a metric ton of guns that lettering would make you poor, then maybe it’s not a good investment. But all in all, a letter is pretty damn cheap. So the question for me is not “Why?” but “Why not?”
I’ve lettered my paltry collection. Hell, one gun I have came with a letter. I re-lettered it: 1. To see if the letters would match; 2. To get my name on the letter; 3. Why not?
As to “don’t care”, well I don’t care about my non-Winchesters so I don’t get them lettered. I don’t even know if they can be lettered. I haven’t asked, because I don’t care.
It really depends. For example, I’ve seen plenty of Winchester carbines (1873’s, 1892’s, 1894’s) with a crescent buttstock. Invariably, the seller asserts, “special order” and asks a premium for the piece. For an example like that, I usually will assume the buttstock has been swapped out (and value the piece accordingly). I have a M1873 SRC with a rifle buttstock. I would expect anyone looking at it would assert the buttstock has been swapped. Fortunately, I have a letter which indicates it is a carbine shipped with a rifle butt.
Kevin Jones said
I addition to all the above input, I feel the factory letters are a cool addition to a Winchester collection. I probably go a little overboard in my collection as I try to obtain, letters, antique Winchester ammo and anything else I can find related to a specific rifle.I display my collection pieces so typically my friends/visitors seem to be quite interested in them. They typically find the factory letters quite interesting and cool.
Kevin, Nice display.
steve004 said
It really depends. For example, I’ve seen plenty of Winchester carbines (1873’s, 1892’s, 1894’s) with a crescent buttstock. Invariably, the seller asserts, “special order” and asks a premium for the piece. For an example like that, I usually will assume the buttstock has been swapped out (and value the piece accordingly). I have a M1873 SRC with a rifle buttstock. I would expect anyone looking at it would assert the buttstock has been swapped. Fortunately, I have a letter which indicates it is a carbine shipped with a rifle butt.
Steve,
I have several in my survey. 61 out of 18235 with a rifle butt. Most of them have been verified by Cody
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
tionesta1 said
Kevin, Nice display.
Thanks!
Winchester Model 1873 44-40 circa 1886
steve004 said
It really depends. For example, I’ve seen plenty of Winchester carbines (1873’s, 1892’s, 1894’s) with a crescent buttstock. Invariably, the seller asserts, “special order” and asks a premium for the piece. For an example like that, I usually will assume the buttstock has been swapped out (and value the piece accordingly). I have a M1873 SRC with a rifle buttstock. I would expect anyone looking at it would assert the buttstock has been swapped. Fortunately, I have a letter which indicates it is a carbine shipped with a rifle butt.
Great point Steve, here’s another example similar to yours. If this 1885 Highwall peep sight wasn’t listed in the letter most would just assume it was added later.
Winchester Model 1873 44-40 circa 1886
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