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November 27, 2013
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Bill Hockett said
Hi Mark, thanks for this video. I always enjoy these. I’m going to stir the pot and offer up an opinion that these large frame Lightnings were at a disadvantage to the Winchester, Marlin, Whitney-Kennedy and Bullard large frame lever rifles. I think that the lever offers more mechanical advantage (leverage) to eject and chamber the next round. Just watching you have some issues with chambering rounds got me to thinking this might have been an issue to 19th century shooters as well.I think it’s also possible that factory cartridges may have had less loading problems. Our handloads of these obsolete black powder cartridges are never go to have the level of standardization of the factory cartridges.
Thoughts?
steve004 said
I’ll be interested to hear Mark’s thoughts on this. I think it could be the case that slightly oversized cartridges might be more difficult to muscle in and out of chambers as compared to the increased mechanical advantage offered by a lever action rifle. However, my impressions of the hiccups that occur with some Lightning rifles is it is with the feeding through the action vs. chambering and extraction. That was my impression of the hiccups Mark was experiencing in one of his videos where he was shooting an Express rifle.
Steve, Bill
In my experience with Lightnings, I have not had any issues with extraction. When they are running right, they run smooth and easy like greased lightning (pardon the pun). I don’t believe extra leverage would be an advantage. Steve’s right, the issue that comes up overwhelmingly as they wear is that they develop feeding issues.
When working on Lightnings, one appreciates that much of the genius of John Browning was in the simplicity and reliability of his designs. While Dr. Elliot designed a very high functioning rifle, everything has to stay timed up just right for them to feed properly. Wear in any part that changes the geometry can cause problems and is hard to find. Lubrication is the Lightnings best friend!
As you saw in the large frame episode, the cartridge just wasn’t quite being lifted high enough to be fed into the chamber every time. On medium frames, with a much shorter cartridge, the timing issues often result in stove pipes. The way the parts interact on Lightnings make it hard to diagnose where the issue lies. Even a weak magazine spring can cause stove pipes, because the action can be cycled so fast that the front of the cartridge won’t clear the magazine before it is lifted if the spring isn’t strong enough.
Bill’s right, that cartridge construction (particularly OAL and crimp) can effect how they feed, but this can be in either factory or reloaded ammo. A lot of times cycling or feeding issues can be corrected simply by changes in cartridge construction. This is particularly true in the medium frames.
I’m sure I’m making this sound much worse than it really is. Most Lightnings run beautifully and are an absolute joy to shoot. It’s just that when they develop problems, they can be difficult to diagnose and there aren’t many gunsmiths remaining who can, or are even willing to work on them. Mark
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