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Hell all,
This rifle was sold out of RIA back in April of this year. It was Lot #3041 where it is clearly stated to be refinished and sold for about $4900. Then it shows up in California and is listed at original, fabulous, extremely rare, spectacular, and superb!!! Did I miss any other adjectives? I think I need a cigarette after reading the description. And supposedly “another fabulous offering from this prestigious collection.” That must be the prestigious collection of rifles purchased at a bunch of other non associated auctions. Ooh so rare!! And a low starting bid of a mere $14,497. But wait. There’s more! If you act NOW for just $15,497.00 it can be yours without having to worry about anybody outbidding you. I am dumb founded that it just also didn’t happen to have an “original shipping crate” like oh so many of his rifles do.
RIA Listing: http://www.rockislandauction.com/viewitem/aid/67/lid/3041
GB Fleecing: http://www.gunbroker.com/Item/573289871
Michael
Model 1892 / Model 61 Collector, Research, Valuation
November 5, 2014
Offline
OMG…!!!!
I’m dumbfounded… We’ve been ‘around the block’ with ‘Dad’ before and all it seemed to do was generate a spirited defense of his marketing strategy as a public service appealing to potential customers who want to pay too much for misrepresented merchandise. 
In the same vein as your post, check out M70 SN 104359, currently in ‘Dad’s’ inventory (a.k.a. fabulous collection):
http://www.gunbroker.com/item/573377426
This gun was purchased from JE Cauthen & Son (no disparagement of Cauthen’s intended):
http://www.jecauthen.com/inventory/rifles/winchester-case-35-detail/
It’s a type II-2 SG 375 Magnum and Cauthen had it at $4500. Since it’s an action variation I’m interested in, I inquired after the rifle a few weeks ago only to find it had been sold. Lo’ and behold, Dad now has it for sale (having in the interim found its original box, paperwork, sling, etc.) for the bargain opening bid price of $7,497 (or a BIN of $8,497). That’s only an 88.8% markup for the (dare I say fake) “accessories”.
Golly….
WACA 9519; Studying Pre-64 Model 70 Winchesters
Lou,
Great info but I am confused (happens all the time), the rifle from JE Cauthen & Son was serial # 104359 and the .257 Roberts rifle from the Dad’s link you posted is #150831 (as viewed on the picture of the receiver).
I think maybe you posted the wrong GB auction link? Did you mean this one? http://www.gunbroker.com/item/573377426
Best Regards,
WACA Life Member #6284 - Specializing in Pre-64 Winchester .22 Rimfire
November 5, 2014
Offline
YES… Thanks!!! Too much switching between windows trying to copy the URL!!! I copied the URL above the one I wanted on the GB site. 
I’ve edited the above post to save confusion!!!
Check Dad’s photo #30.
WACA 9519; Studying Pre-64 Model 70 Winchesters
I have said it before, and will reiterate it… this seller is a low class individual. He has no moral compass, or any sensibility about being honest. He intentionally fabricates B.S. stories and accessories for nearly everything he has for sale. My recommendation… stay as far away from him as possible, and let all of your fellow Winchester collectors and friends know to only deal with him using extreme caution (or not at all).
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Shouldn’t GB take some responsibility for the seller and his misrepresenting the item?
GB has warned that seller more than once, but they have no responsibility for the thousands of add listing each year that are not “accurate”.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
“I think I need a cigarette after reading the description.” –Michael
You have me laughing there, Micheal. Whee!
That fellow lives 618 miles from me, but I’m still uncomfortable!
Thank goodness for ser#s . And you guys that keep track of them
Unfortunately I think the acceptance of con artists by general public is becoming increasingly the new norm , possibly from unconciosly absorbing the example of Politicians and Bureaucrats becoming increasingly brazen , with personal disregard for Laws and without conscience , in their attempted manipulations. History repeats
Cheers to Honest People
Phil
25-20 said
Thank goodness for ser#s . And you guys that keep track of themUnfortunately I think the acceptance of con artists by general public is becoming increasingly the new norm , possibly from unconciosly absorbing the example of Politicians and Bureaucrats becoming increasingly brazen , with personal disregard for Laws and without conscience , in their attempted manipulations. History repeats
Cheers to Honest People
Phil
Sad, but unfortunately true!
Winchester Model 1873 44-40 circa 1886
And here’s another fake, from a different seller.
http://www.gunbroker.com/item/573471663
The seller claims this is a “Rare Winchester Model 70 SUPER GRADE 257 ROBERTS”. Indeed, it would be rare, if only it were real…
In photos 4 & 12, you can see the evidence of stock inletting for a side-mount scope, which has been (badly) repaired. Yet for some strange reason, the receiver is missing the very holes that would have been needed to accommodate that same side-mount.
I can’t see under the front sight hood, but my guess is there is a Winchester 103C silver bead sight under there.
This is another cobbled together gem, being presented to the world as something rare. The current price ($1,525) is not outrageous, as the .257 Roberts barrel and action are themselves scarce and valuable. Left it in its original sporter stock, the seller still would have had something highly desirable to offer. Instead, they go through this charade and pull a fast one on some unsuspecting would-be collector. And for what? A few hundred extra dollars at the most? For the life of me I can’t see why people do this.
Anyhow, I can’t wait to see what this seller lists next; the storyline sounds promising…
The Gentleman that we are currently selling for has an INCREDIBLE COLLECTION he is liquidating SO PLEASE STAY TUNED IN TO OUR LISTINGS!
Buyer beware!
Justin
To me, this new listing is a new low for this guy. A very obvious total refinish and he calls it “stone mint”, “one of the finest in existence”. I guess one of the things I don’t understand is that, to me, anyone who is a serious buyer/collector of Winchesters, would read forums to gain insight and knowledge. If so, I would think that they have read this forum and would have figured it out by now. I guess there is something wrong with my thinking on this though as this guy just goes on and on with the scams AND has perfect feedback. Eagle
This example is no different than any of the past many dozens just like it that he has listed. The seller has no moral compass, and will continue to falsely advertise his “mint” guns, and “factory” boxes or crates. In regards to his perfect feedback, it is because his infrequent buyers are totally unaware that they purchased non-factory original guns and boxes. Those of us that would provide a negative feedback are wise enough not to deal with him. You can’t leave negative feedback if you don’t buy something from him. The sad thing, is that someday in the future, the uninformed buyers of his “products” will try selling them only to learn the real truth. Unfortunately, it will be way too late by then to leave this seller negative feedback.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Maybe it’s a California thing. My LGS has two 3rd model M1873’s in a case listed as “near 100% original finish.” Even with my limited experience and knowledge (much of which thanks to y’all) both have obviously been polished and reblued and wood has been refinished.
The last honest dealer here near LA left the state 10 years ago as the laws here tightened the noose. Too bad too as the guy dealt in a lot of cowboy stuff originating from old Hollywood estates.
Steve
WACA Member. CFM Member. NRA Lifer.
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