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November 7, 2015
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I have no illusions that you will “give up on” SS’s, Bert. Hope you get a chance to shoot it soon, looking forward to a range report.
Mike
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Bert H. said
The scope is the Unertl Small Game 6X with S/N 802. I do not know much about it, or when it might have been manufactured, but am assuming that it is period to the rifle. It would be nice to find some good literature for it.
Certainly period. Unertl serial records have gone with the wind. Pre-war factory paper VERY scarce! Earliest I have is late ’30s folding brochure, small-envelope size; he wasn’t putting out catalogs like Lyman or Fecker. Lyman mounts only ones listed.
January 26, 2011
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Funny you should bring that up… I mentioned to Andy yesterday that would most likely be my next rifle to acquire. I might as well give in now and set my sights on a complete collection of Winchester 22 Hornet rifles, but it is really hard to give up on my beloved Single Shot rifles!
On a side note, I was quite impressed with Andy’s shop, and we talked “shop” for a good hour or so.
Bert
I waited a long time to own a Model 70, but finally gave in. The only one I own is a 22 Hornet made in 1954. I added a Lyman Wolverine 10X, also from that same period. It made for a nice set-up, but I still need to go shoot it with that scope on it.
~Gary~
pdog72 said
Funny you should bring that up… I mentioned to Andy yesterday that would most likely be my next rifle to acquire. I might as well give in now and set my sights on a complete collection of Winchester 22 Hornet rifles, but it is really hard to give up on my beloved Single Shot rifles!
On a side note, I was quite impressed with Andy’s shop, and we talked “shop” for a good hour or so.
Bert
I waited a long time to own a Model 70, but finally gave in. The only one I own is a 22 Hornet made in 1954. I added a Lyman Wolverine 10X, also from that same period. It made for a nice set-up, but I still need to go shoot it with that scope on it.
Gary,
Very nice! Maybe we should go find a “Dog town” and see how they like being attacked by “Hornets” 
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
November 5, 2014
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Hi Bert-
Clarence knows far more about this than I do, but if I understand correctly the first two varieties of scope that John Unertl manufactured on his own after leaving J.W. Fecker circa 1938 were the Small Game/Gallery scope (like yours) and the 1″ Objective Target scope. I had a 6X Unertl Gallery scope with S/N 1870 (I say “had” b/c the scope is currently on “permanent loan” to a WACA member)… 
Pic below shows it on a M54 1st standard in 30 WCF. Anyway, it is in Lyman mounts like yours…
Given the low serial number and the Lyman mounts, I suspect your scope is 1938-39 manufacture. So clearly contemporary and just about perfect for the gun!!!
Good luck on the M54 quest!!! I may have mentioned that I know of the perfect companion piece to your M70. It belongs to a friend. It’s a M54 NRA standard rifle that like your M70 was converted to “K” Hornet by Lylse Kilbourn himself. It has the same “Kilbourn” stamp on the barrel as yours… Dave Morris in AK also had a real nice M54 22 HORNET (not “K”) a couple years ago that was snapped up by another fellow WACA member. So they’re out there!!! 
Word of WARNING to all the ground squirrels, gophers, and other pestilent vermin residing in Washington State… Bert’s rate of fire has just increased by an order of magnitude now that he has a “modern” rifle!!!
Lou
WACA 9519; Studying Pre-64 Model 70 Winchesters
Lou,
That is a very fine looking Model 54. If I can find a decent Model 54 in 22 Hornet I will undoubtedly add it to my collection, and by default become a “Model 54 collector”. I still have the Model 54 30-06 GOVT rifle that I purchased in August 1974. Acquiring a 2nd Model 54 rifle will force me to become a bona fide collector of them
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Bert H. said
pdog72 said
Funny you should bring that up… I mentioned to Andy yesterday that would most likely be my next rifle to acquire. I might as well give in now and set my sights on a complete collection of Winchester 22 Hornet rifles, but it is really hard to give up on my beloved Single Shot rifles!
On a side note, I was quite impressed with Andy’s shop, and we talked “shop” for a good hour or so.
Bert
I waited a long time to own a Model 70, but finally gave in. The only one I own is a 22 Hornet made in 1954. I added a Lyman Wolverine 10X, also from that same period. It made for a nice set-up, but I still need to go shoot it with that scope on it.
Gary,
Very nice! Maybe we should go find a “Dog town” and see how they like being attacked by “Hornets”
Bert
There was dandy town on the highway to Meeteese….pretty tempting.
Steve
Louis Luttrell said
Given the low serial number and the Lyman mounts, I suspect your scope is 1938-39 manufacture. So clearly contemporary and just about perfect for the gun!!!
Bert’s scope is actually not the catalogued Small Game Model, which lacked AO. This may be the 1″ Unertl you referred to, which I was unaware of, because by the time my brochure was printed (between ’35 & ’43, when his address changed), he was listing only a 1-1/4″ with AO, the Small Game, & a hunting scope. First Rifleman ad for the 1-1/4″ was 10-34. If there was any previous ad for a 1″ model, I missed it. After the war, there was a 1″ model introduced, but I think the serial on this one is too low to be post-war. Could even be a custom designed scope, which both Unertl & Fecker advertised they’d make.
Can’t get over how this scope has survived in absolutely pristine cond. Not even the usual rub marks from sliding in the mounts.
Bert H. said
OK, I brought that rifle home (added it to my collection) today. The wife is sleeping on the couch tonight while I cuddle & fondle my first Model 70 rifleBert
I’m really sorry to have missed you at the shop yesterday, Bert. But I’m glad the rifle went to someone who appreciates its unique provenance. I’m not sure I’ve ever seen such a well documented history on a model 70. I’m glad to learn here the scope may be something special as well. It went to the perfect guy, since you’re a Kilbourne fan as well. Now we’ll all await a range report!
have fun with it!
Justin
Bert H. said
OK, I brought that rifle home (added it to my collection) today. The wife is sleeping on the couch tonight while I cuddle & fondle my first Model 70 rifleBert
Hi Bert,
I know you are mostly a lever guy so I figured I better give you some instructions on how to operate a Bolt Action rifle.
1) lift the bolt handle fully upward
2) pull the bolt handle completely rearward
3) push the bolt handle completely forward
4) rotate the bolt handle fully downward
5) make sure the safety is off (I know the “safety” thing is foreign to you lever guys so I thought it would be prudent to mention it here)
That is at least twice as many steps as you lever action guys are used to but I figured since you were a Submariner you might be able to manage it (with some practice) 😉
Congrats on your purchase, what a way to start your Model 70 collection!
Happy Easter!
Best Regards,
WACA Life Member #6284 - Specializing in Pre-64 Winchester .22 Rimfire
November 7, 2015
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How many times have you reached for the bolt handle on that sweet SS .22 you talked Bert out of at Cody, JWA? Kinda nice not having to remember to bring magazines on some range trips tho. J/K, you should see this double gun guy try to shoot a round of skeet with a Winchester riot gun! I’m actually pretty good with a pump gun but sometimes brain fog takes over at a bad time.
Hope everyone had a great Easter.
Mike
JWA said
Bert H. said
OK, I brought that rifle home (added it to my collection) today. The wife is sleeping on the couch tonight while I cuddle & fondle my first Model 70 rifle
Bert
Hi Bert,
I know you are mostly a lever guy so I figured I better give you some instructions on how to operate a Bolt Action rifle.
1) lift the bolt handle fully upward
2) pull the bolt handle completely rearward
3) push the bolt handle completely forward
4) rotate the bolt handle fully downward
5) make sure the safety is off (I know the “safety” thing is foreign to you lever guys so I thought it would be prudent to mention it here)
That is at least twice as many steps as you lever action guys are used to but I figured since you were a Submariner you might be able to manage it (with some practice) 😉
Congrats on your purchase, what a way to start your Model 70 collection!
Happy Easter!
Best Regards,
Ha-ha… very funny. FYI, I have been shooting bolt-action rifles since 1970, and I bought my first bolt-action (a Model 54) in August of 1974!
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
pre64win said
Bert H. said
OK, I brought that rifle home (added it to my collection) today. The wife is sleeping on the couch tonight while I cuddle & fondle my first Model 70 rifle
Bert
I’m really sorry to have missed you at the shop yesterday, Bert. But I’m glad the rifle went to someone who appreciates its unique provenance. I’m not sure I’ve ever seen such a well documented history on a model 70. I’m glad to learn here the scope may be something special as well. It went to the perfect guy, since you’re a Kilbourne fan as well. Now we’ll all await a range report!
have fun with it!
Justin
Justin,
I first need to get the reloading dies & equipment that came with that rifle if you have them, especially the die set. After comparing my K-hornet cartridges to those that were with this rifle, they are noticeably different, and I cannot use my K-hornet dies to reload for this rifle. There were (90) loaded rounds in the wooden boxes, but approximately half of them were not properly crimped and the bullets are loose in the neck. I plan to pull all of them apart and reload them myself.
I sent you a PM with my phone numbers… please give me a call when you can.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
There were (90) loaded rounds in the wooden boxes, but approximately half of them were not properly crimped and the bullets are loose in the neck.Bert H. said
Shouldn’t be crimped at all, if case was properly neck-sized.
I agree with Clarence.
Crimping was very popular in the 19th Century. Not so much in the 21st Century. Much better ways to get the proper neck tension.
Chuck said
I agree with Clarence.Crimping was very popular in the 19th Century. Not so much in the 21st Century. Much better ways to get the proper neck tension.
Had to do with prevalence of revolvers & tubular mag rifles. No problem in single-shots, so when Stevens designed .22 LR, it was deliberately loaded un-crimped (by Peters), because even then it was recognized that crimping was, or could be, detrimental to best accuracy. But as the cartridge began to be chambered in repeaters, ammo makers went back to crimping.
clarence said
There were (90) loaded rounds in the wooden boxes, but approximately half of them were not properly crimped and the bullets are loose in the neck.Bert H. said
Shouldn’t be crimped at all, if case was properly neck-sized.
The necks were not properly sized. The bullets are free to move (they easily rotate and push to far into the case neck). Feeding a cartridge from the magazine pushes the bullet too deeply into the case mouth.
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Chuck said
I agree with Clarence.Crimping was very popular in the 19th Century. Not so much in the 21st Century. Much better ways to get the proper neck tension.
This isn’t my first rodeo, and I know perfectly well what proper neck tension is… and the cartridges in question definitely do not have any neck tension what-so-ever. Feeding them from the magazine to the chamber is what caused the bullet to get pushed too deeply into the case mouth. I was able to pull the bullet out of the case with just my forefinger & thumb. The load the previous owner used was 12.7 grains of IMR 4227 (which is a full case of powder). I intend to pull them all apart and load them with 13.0 – 13.5 grains of Lil’Gun (3,000 fps and best accuracy).
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
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