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renegade said
Gerald,
I previously had “logged” # 45220 with notes that it was a GI listed gun by Perry County Firearms. I believe they had it listed at ($8,795.00)
#45983 would be new to the survey. Can you provide a detailed description (or pictures) of the rifle??
Thank you for sharing and keeping this project moving!!
How many do you now have in the survey?
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Hi Bert,
No, I have never submitted any of my guns to any of the various surveys but I want to. I told Michael I would send him information on the 20 model 61s that I own.
Serial number 45220 that renegade already had listed, I purchased a while back at a local auction for a couple grand but the gun doesn’t look quite right to me.
I have a couple hundred Winchesters and in the coming months I want to add them to the various surveys if possible.
Gerald
I just picked up serial number 46850. Marked 22 L.R. For Shot only. “W” below serial number. Triangular loading port. 2 tang screws. Matted receiver.
November 7, 2015
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Bert H. said
How many do you now have in the survey?
Bert
If over 50 have been surveyed it seems to me that many more than 77 were made or some of the fakes are making it into the survey. I realize the survey has been going on for several years but I still have trouble with the survival rate being that high. Granted, the 61’s didn’t see frontier usage like the early Winchesters and probably weren’t shipped out of the country in large numbers so it’s unlikely many were lost to the elements or other hazards.
Why do you think such a high percentage of these shotguns are showing up in this survey, Bert?
Mike
TXGunNut said
Bert H. said
How many do you now have in the survey?
Bert
If over 50 have been surveyed it seems to me that many more than 77 were made or some of the fakes are making it into the survey. I realize the survey has been going on for several years but I still have trouble with the survival rate being that high. Granted, the 61’s didn’t see frontier usage like the early Winchesters and probably weren’t shipped out of the country in large numbers so it’s unlikely many were lost to the elements or other hazards.
Why do you think such a high percentage of these shotguns are showing up in this survey, Bert?
Mike
Mike,
The current count in the survey is reported to be (77), which is statistically impossible in a survey of this type. There are several things that I find suspect strange in the information gathered thus far. One of them is that there are three distinctly variations of the barrel marking. Given that the serial number range is just 45,000 – 48,000 it hard to believe that the caliber marking changed three different times in just 5-months of production time.
I personally am very suspect of the source stating just (77) of them were made.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
November 7, 2015
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Hadn’t given the barrel markings much thought but you make a good point, Bert. It’s hard to imagine why Winchester would go to the trouble and expense of making three different dies for so few guns during this short period. As to the source I’ve come to consider him one of the enigmas of Winchester collecting. He probably knew more about Winchesters than any person in his time and probably since but we’ve since discovered that some of what he wrote was inaccurate. I’ll guess that this production figure of 77 is another bit of information for which we’ll never know the source but I suspect many of the documents he studied no longer exist or at best are stuck away in a dusty forgotten box somewhere.
This situation is one example of why I appreciate the effort put into these surveys. It would be nice to gather all 77 known specimens in one place for careful examination but a survey is the next best thing thanks to the hard work of the info gatherers and compilers.
Mike
I realize I’m late to the topic but from my understanding, .22 shot & .22 routledge are two different guns. I believe the difference is in the length of counterbore. If memory serves, shot bores have a 7″ counterbore while routledges are 11″. This would explain the high number of guns showing up in the survey.
Darrin
Darrin,
It is more than just the length of the counterbore… it is also the diameter of the counterbored section of the barrel, with the Routledge bore diameter being noticeably larger.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
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