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I am looking at a post 64 model 88 that is in very nice shape except the bore looks to be pitted fairly well. It is in .308 cal. I was thinking if I could get a real good deal on it and it doesn’t shoot well that I could have another barrel put on it. Is that barrel Model 88’s only or would a Model 70 be the same? Does anyone know of a source for a barrel? Also, I don’t know if this is the place to talk value but, the gun appears to be about 90% except for the bore. About how much under 90% would a poor bore place a gun?
Thanks in advance for the help…
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OK,
First… A Model 70 barrel is not the same as a Model 88, or interchangeable.
The value for a "Post-1963" Model 88 is not that significant to start with, and one with a poor bore can not be considered a 90% gun. Frankly, with a poor bore it would be a real stretch to call it anything greater than 25%. A modern rifle is useless if it will not shoot accurately.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Thank you for your reply. I’ll start by saying there is alot I don’t know and that is why I seek answers from people more knowledgeable than myself. I have all ways heard "pre 64" so I was assuming that was the time of change for Winchester. Outwardly the gun does appear 90% ish , I was wondering how bore condition affected over all condition. And from what you say bore condition must be the deciding factor on what a modern gun is worth. As of yet I don’t know if the gun shoots well or not but the rifling was sharp but it looked pitted. I’m guessing the gun could still shoot well and if it does then that would decide the value, correct? You refer to the value of a post "63" Winchesters M88 as not that significant to start with. I would bet that someone probably said the same thing about those 3 beautiful single shots at some time. I have seen these M88 guns sell at a fairly high price (for me anyway). The .308 being most common would be worth less than the .243, .284 and .358 but I still see them on Gunbroker sell in the $500-$600 range. I will remember that if the gun shoots poorly then I will have to pass on it but if it shoots well I will try to talk him down a price I think reasonable. I wonder what kind of accuracy one could expect out of one of these guns in very good condition? Thanks again for your expert opinion.
I have shot quite a few guns with various degrees of pitting. As long as the rifling is sharp, some pitting does not affect the accuracy of jacketed bullets. In general, I have found that guns always shoot better than their bores would suggest, unless there is something else wrong with them other than mere pitting.
Most modern guns have little or no collector’s value simply because there are so many of them around and they have so little history behind them. If you are interested in collecting a few old Winchesters, try to find something that was made before WW II, and that has never been refinished. A budget of $500 to $600 is about as low as you could go, but you might find something in an off-the-beaten track sporting goods store. I found a decent Winchester Model 1894, 38-55 with octagon barrel, shipped in 1900, for $560 in such a place. I found another high condition 38-55 Model 1894 round barrelled rifle made in 1920 for $600 as well and sold it for twice the price. Deals like these are hard to find, but if you are driving through a small town off the main interstates, and you see a gun store, it might be worth checking out.
If the rifle shoots accurately, then the condition of the bore is of minor concern and value degradation.
The pre-64 versus post-63 dividing line is primarily a "collector" consideration, and for some of the pre-64 Winchesters, the bore condition is not an important factor in determining the value. For many of the pre-64 Winchesters, the bore condition is an important factor in determining the value.
For the vast majority of the post-1963 production Winchesters, the "current" value is predicated on the overall graded condition, which includes the bore condition/accuracy.
Currently, a pre-64 Model 88 in 308 Winchester in 90% graded condition is worth almost twice as much as the same rifle that was manufactured in 1964 (or later).
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
Win38-55 said
I have shot quite a few guns with various degrees of pitting. As long as the rifling is sharp, some pitting does not affect the accuracy of jacketed bullets. In general, I have found that guns always shoot better than their bores would suggest, unless there is something else wrong with them other than mere pitting.Most modern guns have little or no collector’s value simply because there are so many of them around and they have so little history behind them. If you are interested in collecting a few old Winchesters, try to find something that was made before WW II, and that has never been refinished. A budget of $500 to $600 is about as low as you could go, but you might find something in an off-the-beaten track sporting goods store. I found a decent Winchester Model 1894, 38-55 with octagon barrel, shipped in 1900, for $560 in such a place. I found another high condition 38-55 Model 1894 round barrelled rifle made in 1920 for $600 as well and sold it for twice the price. Deals like these are hard to find, but if you are driving through a small town off the main interstates, and you see a gun store, it might be worth checking out.
I will sure second what Win38-55 said about bore condition and shooting, although I don’t have his experience. I’ve been loading for a couple of rifles that both have quite a bit of minor pitting. The .33WCF has limited jacketed bullet options, but I’ve done well trouble shooting through issues with powder and charges, cases and even changing my hold (reduced some vertical stringing) when shooting from a rest with that particular rifle. The other is a .303 Savage with a poor bore but I was saved by the multitude of .30-30 class bullets that are available to use in it. Both rifles produce 100 yard groups less than three inches regularly, and when everything goes great, one inch or less. I believe they both have good hunting accuracy in the conditions I would use them in. If I was starting out again with my choice of a first lever gun, great bore or not, and planned on shooting it, I think I would strongly consider a .30 WCF (.30-30), just because of the many bullet options, data and other component availability, besides a lot of loaded ammunition options.
Brad
I will second the suggestion on the 30-30 (30 W.C.F.). I got a 1954 vintage Model 94 Carbine in 95% for $300. The older the carbine the better, but the price will creep up. If your budget is tight and you are just starting, you can get a lot of pleasure out of an honest, unmessed with, well used Winchester with not much blue left on it.
You can very easily put a post 64 push feed M70 barrel on !.I’ve got a couple now that way.The barrel threads are the same so you will need head spacing done,dovetail cut for forend tennon and most likely barrel channel opened up a little as the M70 barrels are a bit heavier than M88’s.The rifles I have all have 243 M70 barrels on.Cost me a couple 100$ but well worth it for me as I don’t like using my nice ones on crapy rainy days so this solved that prob.These rifles are tack drivers with M70 barrels.Barrels from the 670 ( and I think 770 ? ) will work as well.Another barrel that will work is our Canadain Winchester-Cooey Model 71 or the later M710 as well.I have a M710 barrel in .225 that will be going on a M88 receiver in the hopefully near future.Same as above for fitting but with this cal I’ll be playing around a little with the mag as the 225 is rimmed and smaller dia casing
Hope this helps you out !
88
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