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November 19, 2006
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I purchased three of Art Pirkle’s Winchester books many years ago. I happened to be reading the Models 1892 and 1886 volume. I recall years ago being fascinated with his listing of the various oddball chamberings recorded in the factory ledgers. Many of these were not feasible for the M1886 – such as one in .40-72, one in .38-72. On can easily imagine those two were mistakingly recorded in the M1886 ledger instead of the M1895 ledger. And some were experimental – I know the .310 bore was (and was written up in the WACA magazine). And obvious mistake is the “.86-50 Express.” We know no .86 caliber M1886’s were made.
When I first read his book I had noted both the .40 Express and the .40-95 listed. It’s interesting that chambering has recently been discussed here as RIA has one on the auction block.
So, there are quite a few one-off’s smattered among the known standard chamberings. But outside of the standard and known chamberings, the most predominant is the, “.44.” There are 9 recorded. This strikes me as possibly too many to be a simple recording error or number transposition error. Has anyone ever seen or heard of a .44 caliber Model 1886? My best guess is they were all M1892’s that were recorded in the wrong ledger, but I would prefer a more interesting answer.
September 19, 2014
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Steve, In reviewing the records for the model 1895, there were various “questionable” calibers recorded for it as well. Some such as the .45-70 would have been an impossibility without great modification as the rim diameter of the .45-70 Gov’t exceeds the available space between the insides of the action. Then there were others that don’t seem likely but were potentially possible. It remains to be seen if any of those (by serial number) ever come to light. Folks were human after all. Much as we would like nice, clear, complete records for us as historical reviewers, it is what it is. Tim
April 15, 2005
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Steve.
Nine erroneous entries is actually a very small number (percentage) when you consider that there are surviving records for 151,800 Model 1886s. Doing the math results in an error rate of just .000059%.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
May 2, 2009
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I have come across 4 entries in the 73 ledger showing a caliber of 45-60. I would assume someone grabbed the wrong ledger book or had a brain fart(s) while writing in some 73’s.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
November 19, 2006
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Bert H. said
Steve.Nine erroneous entries is actually a very small number (percentage) when you consider that there are surviving records for 151,800 Model 1886s. Doing the math results in an error rate of just .000059%.
Bert
I suppose it could have even been nine consecutive entries made by a substitute record clerk – which would basically be one clerical error.
Thanks to Tim, Bert and Bob for their thoughts.
November 2, 2009
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Labels on boxed ammo could also be confusing. Here’s one from my collection.
September 19, 2014
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Now THAT is a box to keep hold of! Tim
November 2, 2009
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I showed it to Ray Giles several years ago in Denver. He said it is the only one he has ever seen. The lid has an open seam, but the paper label has never been broken.
July 31, 2005
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win4575 said
I showed it to Ray Giles several years ago in Denver. He said it is the only one he has ever seen. The lid has an open seam, but the paper label has never been broken.
Rick,
There is at least one other like it…
I call myself a collector as it sounds better than hoarder
November 19, 2006
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win4575 said
Labels on boxed ammo could also be confusing. Here’s one from my collection.
Wow – that is confusing!
July 14, 2016
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Bill Hockett said
win4575 said
I showed it to Ray Giles several years ago in Denver. He said it is the only one he has ever seen. The lid has an open seam, but the paper label has never been broken.
Rick,
There is at least one other like it…
And here is another! In Australia. I bought it in NZ.
I find out funny how the main front label states ’86 AND SINGLE SHOT RIFLES’, and then a label on the rear states ’40-60 ON THE UNDERSIDE OF THE CARRIER BLOCK’.
A man can never have too many WINCHESTERS...
November 2, 2009
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Very interesting, but it’s a given that this label must appear on more than a couple of boxes. However, I would bet that this mistake was caught very early on and not many surviving examples still exist. The other side of it is, most people today just don’t pay that much attention.
February 17, 2022
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Aussie Chris said
Bill Hockett said
win4575 said
I showed it to Ray Giles several years ago in Denver. He said it is the only one he has ever seen. The lid has an open seam, but the paper label has never been broken.
Rick,
There is at least one other like it…
And here is another! In Australia. I bought it in NZ.
I find out funny how the main front label states ’86 AND SINGLE SHOT RIFLES’, and then a label on the rear states ’40-60 ON THE UNDERSIDE OF THE CARRIER BLOCK’.
Last time I looked 86’s don’t have a carrier block and came in 40-65. Which, correct me if I wrong is a derivative based on the 45-70 case.
November 19, 2006
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oldcrankyyankee said
Aussie Chris said
Bill Hockett said
win4575 said
I showed it to Ray Giles several years ago in Denver. He said it is the only one he has ever seen. The lid has an open seam, but the paper label has never been broken.
Rick,
There is at least one other like it…
And here is another! In Australia. I bought it in NZ.
I find out funny how the main front label states ’86 AND SINGLE SHOT RIFLES’, and then a label on the rear states ’40-60 ON THE UNDERSIDE OF THE CARRIER BLOCK’.
Last time I looked 86’s don’t have a carrier block and came in 40-65. Which, correct me if I wrong is a derivative based on the 45-70 case.
You’re not wrong Tom.
July 14, 2016
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oldcrankyyankee said
Aussie Chris said
Bill Hockett said
win4575 said
I showed it to Ray Giles several years ago in Denver. He said it is the only one he has ever seen. The lid has an open seam, but the paper label has never been broken.
Rick,
There is at least one other like it…
And here is another! In Australia. I bought it in NZ.
I find out funny how the main front label states ’86 AND SINGLE SHOT RIFLES’, and then a label on the rear states ’40-60 ON THE UNDERSIDE OF THE CARRIER BLOCK’.
Last time I looked 86’s don’t have a carrier block and came in 40-65. Which, correct me if I wrong is a derivative based on the 45-70 case.
Thats exactly why I mentioned it and photographed it.
A man can never have too many WINCHESTERS...
