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I`m having this rifle shipped to my local Cabelas and am thinking about buying it. I’ve learned from past experience to secure the rifle before posting to keep it safe from the circling Winchester vultures out there. However, I would like to get some opinions regarding the condition, configuration, and the price. I confirmed that it has the short 8 3/8″ forearm and the condition of the bore is excellent according to the person I talked to at Cabelas. Barrel markings look correct and there are single proof marks on barrel and receiver, so no rebarrel. I appreciate all opinions–is the price reasonable?
Pdog: How man of these in this configuration do you have in your 1894 short rifle survey?
Thanks,
Don
Hello Don,
It is definitely a nice looking rifle but I would expect the rear sight to be closer to the receiver face on a 20 inch rifle. I have several short barrel Model 1892’s and the rear sight dovetail (center line) is approximately 3.5 inches from the receiver. Get exact measurements, and photos with tape measure, of the front sight dovetail and the magazine retaining band positions from the muzzle and post them.
Michael
Model 1892 / Model 61 Collector, Research, Valuation
Don, that will make a very nice addition to your “94” collection if it checks out.
I will look forward to seeing what the experts say.
Winchester Model 1873 44-40 circa 1886
Not an expert,but have 1 92 and one 94 rifle, both 20″ oct. barrels, short forearms,but are measured 4″ from center of dovetail to reciever. I am also waiting for more input. thanks, doug
Make sure you work them down on price. My experience is 10-20% off from Gun Library price for the guns I have purchased from them.
Good Luck!
Douglas,
4 inches from dovetail to receiver is right for a 20″ rifle. I cant recall seeing a 20″ with a 5″ span between dovetail and receiver but you do find them commonly on 22″ barrels. Gary (pdog) could probably provide you a little more info on what he is seeing in his survey
deerhunter, definitely work on them on the price. Depending on how long the gun has sat there unsold will oftentimes lead to a nice discounted price.
1892takedown @sbcglobal.net ......NRA Endowment Life Member.....WACA Member
"God is great.....beer is good.....and people are crazy"... Billy Currington
twobit said
Hello Don,It is definitely a nice looking rifle but I would expect the rear sight to be closer to the receiver face on a 20 inch rifle. I have several short barrel Model 1892’s and the rear sight dovetail (center line) is approximately 3.5 inches from the receiver. Get exact measurements, and photos with tape measure, of the front sight dovetail and the magazine retaining band positions from the muzzle and post them.
Michael
Hi Michael,
I just talked to Tom at Cabelas and got some measurements–could not get photos though. Here are the measurements he gave me:
Center of rear sight dovetail to muzzle = 4 inches
Center of front sight dovetail to muzzle = 1 inch
Center of magazine retaining band dovetail (pin) to muzzle = 3 13/16 inches
Diameter of muzzle face = 11/16 inch
I’ve compared all these measurements to Renneberg’s Model 94 book and are where they are supposed to be. The only small variation is the magazine band dovetail, but Renneberg states it should be 3 7/8 plus or minus 1/16 of an inch from the muzzle to the center (pin), which coincides with the above 3 13/16 inch measurement.
Thanks,
Don
Randal McEvers said
Make sure you work them down on price. My experience is 10-20% off from Gun Library price for the guns I have purchased from them.Good Luck!
Thanks Randal. If I like it after a hands-on inspection I’ll give it a shot.
Don
January 26, 2011
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Don,
All the measurements sound correct to me. As for the rear dovetail, it doesn’t necessarily follow the barrel length, but rather the length of the fore-end wood. In my small survey, approx. 83% of the 20″ and 22″ barreled 1894’s have the short (8 3/8″) wood and the others have long wood, (9 3/8″). The 4″ rear dovetail always follows the 8 3/8″ fore-ends. If a rifle has long wood (9 3/8″), the dovetail will be at 5″ from the receiver face. In my opinion, the short rifles with the short wood/short dovetail spacing were built as short rifles. The ones with long wood/long dovetail spacing were likely factory cut downs to fill short rifle orders if there weren’t any available……again, just my opinion.
The 3 leaf express sight is an added bonus. The rifle appears to be in nice condition, and original. If the bore is good, as they claim, its probably a good buy at $2500-$2700.
As for that particular configuration, I have 51 of them like that, a few of them have shotgun butts. Keep in mind, I only have 371 rifles in my survey, not thousands like some other guys, but a good representation of what’s out there and enough to reflect the trends. So from my results, that configuration is approx. 14% of the pool I have surveyed.
Hope that helps,
~Gary~
Thanks Gary. I appreciate the evaluation and statistics. Bert pointed out that the 3-leaf express sight looks damaged (missing the middle leaf)–bummer!! I’ll still look at it in person and point out the flaws and try to knock the price down a bit.
Don
deerhunter said
Hi Michael,
I just talked to Tom at Cabelas and got some measurements–could not get photos though. Here are the measurements he gave me:
Center of rear sight dovetail to muzzle = 4 inches
Center of front sight dovetail to muzzle = 1 inch
Center of magazine retaining band dovetail (pin) to muzzle = 3 13/16 inches
Diameter of muzzle face = 11/16 inch
I’ve compared all these measurements to Renneberg’s Model 94 book and are where they are supposed to be. The only small variation is the magazine band dovetail, but Renneberg states it should be 3 7/8 plus or minus 1/16 of an inch from the muzzle to the center (pin), which coincides with the above 3 13/16 inch measurement.
Thanks,
Don
Hello Don,
Those are correct for the sight and the retaining band. The rear sight most likely appears further from the receiver face due to the relatively short length of the Express sight. I think you are going to be bringing home a new rifle! Congrats
Michael
Model 1892 / Model 61 Collector, Research, Valuation
January 26, 2011
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twobit said
Hello Don,
Those are correct for the sight and the retaining band. The rear sight most likely appears further from the receiver face due to the relatively short length of the Express sight. I think you are going to be bringing home a new rifle! Congrats
Michael
Michael,
I look at these quite often and usually can tell without measuring if the dovetail is at the 4″ position. You are absolutely correct in that the 3 leaf sight makes it deceiving since its much shorter.
~Gary~
April 26, 2015
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That “short rifle” is nicer than mine, a Christmas gift to myself. For comparison purposes, mine (mfg 1918) cost a little less than $2,400. 
January 26, 2011
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Bruce Koligian said
That “short rifle” is nicer than mine, a Christmas gift to myself. For comparison purposes, mine (mfg 1918) cost a little less than $2,400.
Bruce
I own #849277 (1917) in the same configuration, and similar condition, maybe a bit lower, and have about $1850 in it, but that was a few years ago. Good to know they keep going up in value.
~Gary~
January 26, 2011
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pdog72 said
Michael,
I look at these quite often and usually can tell without measuring if the dovetail is at the 4″ position. You are absolutely correct in that the 3 leaf sight makes it deceiving since its much shorter.
FYI – I just measured the three leaf (1.96) vs. a standard sporting rear (3.08). With over an inch difference, I now better understand why Michael and I came to the same conclusion. I honestly didn’t realize the 3 leaf was that much shorter.
~Gary~
January 26, 2011
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deerhunter said
Hi Michael,
I just talked to Tom at Cabelas and got some measurements–could not get photos though. Here are the measurements he gave me:
Center of rear sight dovetail to muzzle = 4 inches
Center of front sight dovetail to muzzle = 1 inch
Center of magazine retaining band dovetail (pin) to muzzle = 3 13/16 inches
Diameter of muzzle face = 11/16 inch
I’ve compared all these measurements to Renneberg’s Model 94 book and are where they are supposed to be. The only small variation is the magazine band dovetail, but Renneberg states it should be 3 7/8 plus or minus 1/16 of an inch from the muzzle to the center (pin), which coincides with the above 3 13/16 inch measurement.
Thanks,
Don
Ok, I’m on a roll now, one more thing to add with regards to muzzle diameters on the ’94s…..
I have 12 1894s, so I re-measured all the muzzles. 6 of them are standard weight barrels, 5 are extra lightweights, and one lonely carbine. This is what I got. They track pretty close regardless of barrel length.
Standard barrel avg. muzzle diameter – .704 (11/16 is .6875)
ELW barrel avg. muzzle diameter – .572 (9/16 is .5625)
The carbine was .602
~Gary~
I’ve read that these 1894 short rifles in this configuration are often referred to as “border rifles” and were often discovered near the Texas-Mexico border. What organization or group would likely to have been carrying these about a century ago? The U.S. Border Patrol wasn’t formed until 1924, but in reading, the U.S. Immigration Service used mounted guards/watchmen to prevent illegal crossings as early as 1904. I’ve attached a link below to an article on the U.S. Customs and Border Patrol website. The seventh photo down in the article shows one of these mounted guards. Does the rifle in the saddle scabbard looks like it could be one of of these? It looks like it has a rifle butt-stock and it would need to be a short rifle to fit that far down into the scabbard. Thoughts?
https://www.cbp.gov/border-security/along-us-borders/history
Don
November 7, 2015
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Pics look good, hope you can do a bit better on the price. I stumbled onto my short rifle at my local Cabela’s, pretty sure they didn’t know quite what they had. It’s not near as nice as this one tho, good luck!
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