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August 11, 2015
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All,
I have an 1886 rifle, SN 47368 in a 45-70 caliber. I took the forearm and magazine off to clean it up and have started to document the barrel markings on all my guns.
Toward the receiver end where the caliber and VP stamp are marked, there was a series of numbers xxxxx’d out and followed by the 45-70.
It looks like the number x’d out is 40-65. I am attaching a photo for reference.
Just wondering if this is something the factory would do or would it have been performed after market by an outside gunsmith.
Thanks,
September 9, 2011
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I would say it was done at the factory. Of course, I’m assuming it letters as a .45-70.
December 1, 2012
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I’ll take a stab at guessing that those are factory XXXXXX’s. The font appears to be the same as the 45-70 and the depth of the indentation matches that of the caliber, as though the X’s and the caliber markings were applied at the same time. A CFM search would be most interesting in this case, especially if it reveals that the factory shipped it as a 45-70. As I understand it, rifles returned for repair would have been re-barreled if a caliber change was requested. And if the factory found a defect after inspecting the initial 40-65 boring, would they re-bore the barrel or toss it? When were the caliber markings applied – before or after boring?
My very first Model 1886 was a real bargain because it is a 45-70 that has been re-bored from a 40-65. One wouldn’t know that except that when the forearm is removed the underside is marked 40-65.
"This is the West, sir. When the legend becomes fact, print the legend."
May 2, 2009
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I would say the 45-70 stamp and the X’s are not factory. They are a larger font than the original mark and they were put in after the barrel was blued.
Bob
WACA Life Member--- NRA Life Member---- Cody Firearms member since 1991 Researching the Winchester 1873's
Email: [email protected]
August 11, 2015
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Thanks to all for the feedback. I am getting a serial number search done; will probably get the results back early next week.
My initial thoughts were that it was also done outside the factory but I cant quite resolve why the barrel markings on top seem correct for the 45-70 and the time period of manufacture. I continue to be amazed at how many guns have replacement parts and am especially skeptical of any barrels that don’t have the Winchester proof mark. Seems like it is darn near impossible to tell if a barrel has been replaced outside the factory in these cases.
Regards,
September 9, 2011
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It’s a good thing the barrel DOESN’T have a proof mark.
January 24, 2013
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I suspect it’s a factory job. More than likely there was a higher demand for 45-70 v. 40-65
I imagine it was done in the most expedient and efficient manner, not realizing it would be subjected to a CSI type investigation 100 + years later.
August 11, 2015
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All
According to the CFM serial number search, Model 1886 SN 47368, left the factory on October 1, 1890 as rifle with a round barrel in caliber 40-82.
Not sure how or why the XXX’s got put there, but it is a non-factory replacement octagon barrel that apparently somebody stamped with a 40-65 first off, and then had to change to 45-70.
You never know with some of these!
December 1, 2012
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Interesting result, certainly not the one anticipated. Good work.
"This is the West, sir. When the legend becomes fact, print the legend."
August 11, 2015
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I am not an expert on gunsmithing, but have a question on what it would take to change the gun to a 45-70 from an original 40-82. I realize the barrel replacement is rather straightforward, but would assume that something would have to be done to the receiver as well. Would appreciate any educational enlightenment that could be shared.
regards,
December 1, 2012
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You could have it re-bored to a 45-70. That’s all that would be needed.
The receiver and parts are the same.
The upper receiver is a 40-82 and the lower is a 45-70.
"This is the West, sir. When the legend becomes fact, print the legend."
Just got a winchester in 40-65 been in a basement ( dry climate )for 60+ years it looks case harded 75813 is the serial number and its missing rear stock no idea why and rear sight also needed. Barrel looks too good for age serial number info i can find says made in 1892 thats all i know can any one figure out if full octagon barrel and 40-65 from factory maybe runn the number for me ? Alberta canada
