1873man said

mark,

I take it there are no other cuts on the bottom of the barrel besides the forearm and mag band?

Bob

And the cut for the magazine cap.  All cuts are where they are supposed to be in relation to the muzzle and receiver

25-20 said

The diversity of opinions of an acceptable collectible guns certainly varies immensely , It would be nice if some factors could be standardized.

Such as orig bluing remaining. I would consider a brand new gun to be 100%.

I often see guns with the thinnest remainder possible (this thinness varies , and in some examples it is amazing that it is not thru in more places)    as being described as 80-  95% etc.  In some lighting conditions they appear as rust coated. If a ‘weight’ value of the original coating could be quantified (in whatever miniscule measurement) (or a daylight blocking factor of thickness etc ) and the now Vendor assessed 95% be quantified .I would say there would be a huge discrepancy from true original amount (in reality the touted 95% is possibly 10%?)

Also on wood finish,  Is it acceptable that a layer of oil could have been added on top at one time? 

I was very surprised to hear recently that on some re-case colored guns in auction were touted as original and fetched over $50,000. to me I would think this is defiantly “messed with”. Not being an expert , absolutely brand new looking guns are suspect to me in some areas.

My Personal Quirks on this issue regard the Barrel. this is where I might be considered obsessive. (I guess wanting to shoot all my guns gives me different priorities) I dont think I could buy a cut barrel, or a rough bore.(generally , I can never say never depending on other rarity , or  desirability factors to me)

I dont like to see vice marks. extra holes etc. But depending on the overall appeal of the gun to me I may be able to live with a couple issues if barrel is good and bore is excellent  There is in my own mind a declining  scale of non original alterations that I could live with if significantly reducing the price of the gun to me and not being concerned about re-sale.    changed  sight , non factory sling eye holes in stock etc. which I think would be as much of a deal killer for some of you as cut Barrel might be for me

We certainly are individuals when assessing whether we want that new acquisition enough to pay the price

Phil

Thanks for your opinion Phil.   The other 40 or so Winchester lever guns in my collection are all correct.  I too don’t care for extra holes, sanded wood, refinished metal, etc.  The condition of the 76 was just to nice to pass, for the price I paid, even with all the questions.  Actually, I found the issues with the gun intriguing.  As for bore condition, I shoot many of my guns.  A lot of them have bore condition that look like someone ran barbwire through but they still knock over 10″ steel plates at 100 yards.  The 76 should shoot equally as well.

mrc

mrcvs said

JWM94 said

sb said

The questions about the serial number stamping are good ones.   

Indeed they are, and it appears that mrcvs has overlooked this point.

James

Okay, maybe this is a good question, as it would be applicable to possibly any and every Winchester 1876, from a 0% heavily modified parts gun to a pristine one that got purchased and was maintained in new condition, never fired, etc.  Granted, this is indeed a good question.

However, I have been around the block a few times.  Initially, it sounded like, to me, the original poster was seeking the response he wanted, fishing for that answer, to justify overpricing the gun in order to gain back what he overpaid, or to find that it is indeed worth several times what he paid for it, and then some.  The way the OP started this thread, and several others, it seemed that he was a ‘green’ collector, and I was surprised that he owned over 40 firearms.  I am not insulting him, it is the way it was worded, and the “shotgun” approach to posting multiple threads…  We all make green mistakes every now and again.  I will admit the last antique arms show I went to, I asked to see the Colt SAA, with condition, and ate my words once I got it in my hands and realized that this firearm was indeed the size of a Colt SAA, and had condition, but even the greenest collector could see that the frame/grip interface was not the straight line it should be, but sloped back 30 degrees, etc.  It turned out it was a foreign made six shooter.  I think the fact there was a six shooter with condition at that show that at least resembled a Colt SAA got me excited, other than the usual Colt SAA revolvers that do have condition and are “recycled” show after show due to being overpriced or “modified” with intent to deceive, intentionally or unintentionally.  I was so embarrassed that I asked to see the Colt SAA, I quickly handed it back and receded back into the gun show crowd. (Edit: Originally I did not know the price of this firearm was $1500 and expected the OP was seeking commentary on his $7500 “bargain”.)

Also, the ‘thought process’, at least mine, made me recall an individual on the Smith & Wesson forum that posted pictures of his heavily buffed and refinished revolver, I believe it was a lemon squeezer.  He had about 4 or 6 posts, so obviously joined after receiving this revolver.  He was convinced it was all original and super rare, and several experts, or at least individuals who handled a few Smith & Wessons every now and again, informed the individual who owned this revolver that it was not rare and was heavily refinished and worth about $100 on a good day.  The poster stated that, despite what he was told, he was convinced it was rare and not refinished.  I may lack tact, but I did not hesitate to inform the individual that among the most knowledgeable Smith & Wesson experts in the world are on that forum, so who is he to say that he is correct, despite having virtually no experience with guns, and the experts had already chimed in.  I expected a repeat of the same thing, initially, and I have little patience with this.  In my profession, I am usually tactful, as I have to be.  But I have little patience that I cannot vent on a semi-anonymous forum, such as this one, when a client knows far better than I do, even though I went to school for four years following my Bachelor’s degree, and they did not.  The best I can do is document in the medical record that the client failed to heed my advice, and if egregious enough, produce a document stating that the client failed to heed my advice, and this advice could prove detrimental or fatal to the patient, which the client signs.  (I am a veterinarian). (Edit:  Here is the post about the Smith & Wesson–it was a .38 Double Action revolver, check out post #10.  I tell it like it is, or, depending on your point of view, proof that I have been a “jerk” since at least September of 2013 http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-antiques/336334-s-w-38-pearl-handled-nickel-all-serial-help.html  ).

Lastly, perhaps I was a bit flippant at first, but, well, please forgive me if I step on toes here, but I guess I regarded the rifle owned by the OP like a rifle I might see at a gun show…that is, shortened barrel, ivory inlay, grooved forearm, and not with significant condition (although this one doesn’t have half-bad bluing present, for what it is!), in the category of “let’s move on”.  Since I have taken this approach, it makes it really easy what to look at when at an antique arms show.  Start looking at guns with at least some condition, OR, at least a few special order features, at the very least, determine if they are original or have been altered, and, if they are of interest due to rarity and/or condition, see if they are priced reasonably.  Most are not.  Makes it really easy which firearms are worthy of further consideration and possible purchase. 

I don’t wish to sound like a “snob”, but perhaps I might here.  A run of the mill Winchester with patina and no features purchased for a grand or two, after several years, may only be worth the original asking price, or more or less, but by not much.  A firearm with features and condition, with a high 4 or 5 figure price tag usually outpaces inflation and then some.  But, then again, a high dollar “investment” could prove to have been helped or “faked” and that investment has a significant negative return.  You spend a few grand, you cannot be out more than that amount.  You buy a high dollar Winchester, you have the potential to lose a lot more.

If you have read this far, thank you for reading what I had to say…

mrcvs,

Apparently you did not even read my initial post.  I asked 3 questions.  None of them had to do with the originality of the gun and none of them had anything to do with the value of the gun, neither how much is it worth nor did I pay to much.  And they were simple yes or no questions.  A no answer would be fine if it was followed by an explanation.  A yes answer would have been fine if it was followed by an explanation.  I do own several Winchester lever guns but this is the first early 76 I have ever owned hence the questions.  I’m not sure if you were trying to make things right by your last post but you actually just dug your hole deeper.

Like you I too will look at a Winchester at an auction or gun show and if it looks altered and I’m not interested in it I will think to my self to bad someone drilled holes in the receiver or whatever and then I will walk on by.  Unlike you I don’t stand there and berate the guys gun to him because it does not appeal to me, isn’t worth beans, is a parts gun, etc.

Oh, yes you are a jerk, flippant, and a snob.

To all of you who have provided positive feedback I thank you.  It is unfortunate, for those of us looking to gain knowledge, to call upon “experts” who end up having nothing productive to say, could care less about the history of these great guns, who only see dollar signs, and who say “never ever”.

I purchased a membership to the Winchester Collectors for the purpose of putting up a post and getting some productive feedback.  Perhaps I should have saved my money.  I will just stick to the folks at the Winchester museum for my inquiries and to those collectors and dealers whom I know are willing to share their knowledge.