Re-examining “City of Toronto” Marked Winchester Model 1894 Carbines Oral History, Markings, and What Can (and Cannot) Be Verified|Winchester Military Arms|Forum|Winchester Collector

Re-examining “City of Toronto” Marked Winchester Model 1894 Carbines
Oral History, Markings, and What Can (and Cannot) Be Verified

Over the years, a considerable amount of unverified and often repeated information has circulated regarding so-called “City of Toronto” marked Winchester Model 1894 carbines—much of it attributed loosely to collector romanticism and speculation, Don Jail anecdotes, or generalized assumptions about early Toronto policing.

This post is intended to start from the ground up, relying on firsthand oral history from a former Toronto police officer, while clearly identifying where the evidence ends and interpretation begins.

What follows should be read not as definitive proof, but as credible oral testimony that helps frame future archival and physical research.

Source of Information

The information below was provided directly by D. W. former Metro Toronto Police Constable  41 Division who served from the early 80s to the late 80s.

During his service, he was a member of the revolver team and had extensive contact with older officers—many of whom pre-dated the formation of Metro Toronto Police in 1957, having originally served on earlier municipal forces.

Core Oral History: “City of Toronto” vs. “T.P.F.” Markings

According to Constable W. among older Toronto officers it was widely believed that Winchester Model 1894 carbines marked “City of Toronto” were not issued to frontline police, but instead were intended for municipal animal control purposes.

This belief was passed down orally rather than supported by known written orders or procurement records.

Context is important. In the early 1900s, Toronto still had extensive horse traffic, large stock yards, and frequent incidents involving escaped livestock. The assumption among senior officers was that these carbines were used to dispatch animals rather than for patrol or police duties.

Crucially, W. notes that all Toronto Police Force guns he personally inspected were stamped “T.P.F.” and not “City of Toronto.”

Observed Police Firearms Markings (Firsthand)

Based on W.’s direct inspection of firearms during his service, confirmed police-issued firearms were stamped “T.P.F.” (Toronto Police Force).

These markings were most often found on the lower left side of the receiver, though not always consistently placed.

He did not personally encounter any Winchester Model 1894 carbines marked “City of Toronto” during his service.

This suggests that “City of Toronto” markings may represent a different ownership or department stream than standard T.P.F police issue.

Disposal of Toronto Police Firearms (Early 1980s)

W. provides firsthand detail regarding the large-scale disposal of surplus firearms by the City of Toronto in approximately 1982–1983.

Firearms observed included Winchester Model 1894 carbines, Winchester Model 97 shotguns, Winchester Model 12 shotguns, and a small number of Thompson submachine guns.

(**Note the OPP had the exactly the same issue of long guns and shotguns, and machine guns) 

Model 97 shotguns were usually marked “T.P.F.” The Model 12 shotguns and Model 1894 carbines were mostly unmarked, though marked examples did exist.

The firearms were long out of service and stored in large cardboard drums, often filled with mixed long guns. He observed these drums in a City of Toronto facility in East York, though he cannot recall the exact building. Disposal was handled by the city department responsible for surplus municipal assets.

Approximate sale prices at the time were around $100 for shotguns, slightly more for Model 1894 carbines, and approximately $1,000 for a Thompson submachine gun in a canvas case with two stick magazines and one drum magazine.

Calibre Observations: .32 Winchester Special

One particularly interesting but unverified recollection is that W. recalls being told the carbines were ordered in .32 Winchester Special rather than .30-30.

The reasoning passed down orally was to reduce ammunition “loss” during deer season, as most officers privately owned .30-30 rifles. This explanation remains anecdotal and cannot currently be confirmed, though it aligns with known practices elsewhere where agencies selected non-standard calibres for control purposes.

What This Information Does Not Prove

This oral history does not prove that “City of Toronto” marked carbines were never used by police, nor that all such carbines were strictly animal-control property.

It does not establish procurement dates, quantities, or issuing authority, and no surviving written orders, armoury ledgers, or council minutes have yet been produced to corroborate these claims.

However, it strongly suggests that “T.P.F.” markings are the clearest indicator of police issue, and that “City of Toronto” markings likely indicate municipal ownership outside standard police armoury channels.

Why This Oral History Matters

Many of the officers who held this institutional knowledge are now deceased. What remains are surviving firearms, inconsistent markings, and oral history such as this.

While imperfect, oral history often provides the only remaining context. Preserving it clearly and transparently allows future researchers to test, confirm, or refute it as new evidence emerges.

Call for Further Evidence

To move this topic forward, the following would be valuable: photographs of confirmed “T.PF” marked NOT “City of Toronto” Winchester Model 1894 carbines; any municipal animal control procurement records; City Council or Works Department minutes referencing firearms; surviving armoury disposal lists from the early 1980s; and serial-numbered examples with traceable provenance.

Until such documentation surfaces, this post should be treated as a carefully recorded oral account rather than a definitive conclusion.

I plan on utilizing my connections and resources in the new year 2026 to further research and document this guns.