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February 6, 2010
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Guys I have a question about 218 Bee brass. I loaded some with hornady 218 bee .224 jacketed bullets and a few kind of bulged a little. Not enough to not want to chamber but a tad tighter than i am use to. Question is does anyone lube the inside of the bottle neck before seating the bullets?
Steve
April 15, 2005
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I do not, but I do run all of my 22 Hornet cases through a .223 expander die after neck sizing them. I have neck expander sizer dies in both .223″ and .224″ as some bullet types require a slightly larger inside neck diameter.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
February 6, 2010
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Doesn’t the full length sizing die have an expander built in?
April 15, 2005
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slk said
Doesn’t the full length sizing die have an expander built in?
No… mine have the decapping rod & pin. The full-length sizing die squeezes the neck, and then you have to expand it in a separate die (to fit the bullets you are using).
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
October 14, 2024
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I don’t reload for 218 Bee but, I do dry lube my other brass when I reload. I filled a small container with lead shot and dumped dry graphite into it. Close the lid and shake the contents.
To lube, insert the neck into the pellets and twist with your thumb. Size as you normally would. Whenever the graphite starts to look inadequate, cap and shake again.
February 6, 2010
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I am using a set of Lee dies and I believe the full length sizing die with the decapper had a ball expander built in..
This is the first time I have ever had any issues with seating bullets. The majority of them seated ok. And the cast bullets seated with no problems ata ll and they were sized to .224 with a gas check..
If I am totaly missing something please let me know.
Steve
September 22, 2011
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I luvs the inside of the neck using a Q tip for .270 Winchester and .30-06. I don’t see how there is an alternative to this, or risk a stuck case.
November 7, 2015
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It’s possible the bullets aren’t getting started straight, spitzer profile a bit fussier than boat-tail bullets. But yes. I lube the inside case necks to aid the passage of the expander ball on the bottleneck cases I load.
Mike
February 6, 2010
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That situation is exactly what I just determined with the initial/starting of the seating. If the bullet starts in crooked or cocked it will leave a buldge in one spot that even the crimping die can not get out. Close but not quite.
I loaded 25 rounds just to test the load and about 3 of them had that buldge at the edge of the rim. All of the rest of them came out great.
I had not lubed the inside of the neck, but thinking for this round I may try that and see if it helps.
I also load 22 hornet and never had an issue using the same hornady 218 bee hp .224 bullet
Like I have said I am new to this 218 bee
Thank everyone for all of their input. You guys have been a huge help in the past and now
Steve
March 31, 2009
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slk said
I am using a set of Lee dies and I believe the full length sizing die with the decapper had a ball expander built in..
This is the first time I have ever had any issues with seating bullets. The majority of them seated ok. And the cast bullets seated with no problems ata ll and they were sized to .224 with a gas check..
If I am totaly missing something please let me know.
Steve
I have a few f/l sizing dies that size, decap and expand. Some die sets have a separator expander. Never really sat down and thought why? For my target rifles I use 3 different dies to accomplish the 3 tasks. But I think the modern bottle neck calibers use 2 die sets? Whereas the rimmed case use 3?
November 7, 2015
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Chuck said
slk said
I am using a set of Lee dies and I believe the full length sizing die with the decapper had a ball expander built in..
This is the first time I have ever had any issues with seating bullets. The majority of them seated ok. And the cast bullets seated with no problems ata ll and they were sized to .224 with a gas check..
If I am totaly missing something please let me know.
Steve
I have a few f/l sizing dies that size, decap and expand. Some die sets have a separator expander. Never really sat down and thought why? For my target rifles I use 3 different dies to accomplish the 3 tasks. But I think the modern bottle neck calibers use 2 die sets? Whereas the rimmed case use 3?
Two die bottleneck die sets typically decap, size and expand with the first die, second die to seat and crimp (if desired). A three die set for straight or tapered cases uses the first die to size and decap only, second die to expand the case mouth and third die to seat and crimp. Some three die sets come with more than one expander for different size bullets. Some benchrest dies allow more precise bullet alignment and micrometer adjustment but I have limited experience with them. There are other specialized dies for other tasks or special applications, of course.
Mike
April 15, 2005
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All of my die sets have separate neck expanders.
Quite frankly, it does not make much sense to squeeze the neck (reduce it in diameter) in a full length or neck sizing die, and then at the same time try to expand the neck diameter to the correct size for the bullet you select to load. By doing so, you are forcing the neck through two opposing hard surfaces with the end result being significantly more force needed to accomplish the dual sizing, and also thinning (moving) the brass neck causing it to lengthen and then needing to be trimmed. From a practical standpoint, the neck (and full case if desired) should be sized first, then if too much tension exists when attempting to seat the desired bullet, run the case neck though the appropriate size (diameter) expander die. The neck wall will not thin nearly as much, nor will it grow in length nearly as much.
Bert
WACA Historian & Board of Director Member #6571L
November 7, 2015
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The die sets that size, decap and expand with one die don’t make much sense but they expand after they size and seem to work pretty well in my experience-if I’m using jacketed bullets. In some cases I’ve been known to polish the expander ball to keep it from pulling on the case neck. Also brass hardens with work so I suspect without annealing this affects case life. Some three-die sets size the brass a bit too small for my taste but I like fat bullets. I’d prefer to load bottleneck cases with three different dies but some of my bottleneck die sets were purchased before I figured that out. The expander ball can be removed or reduced in size and an expander die used instead but I don’t dabble with bottleneck cartridges much lately.
Mike
September 28, 2016
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The whole purpose of inside neck lubing is to reduce the friction of the expander ball as it is drawn through the case neck. This reduces/eliminates neck stretch. I personally do not see a need to expand the neck in a separate step as a full length or neck sizing die does this for you. The neck is squeezed in the top portion of the die and is expanded on the down stroke AFTER the neck is pulled down from the sizing portion of the die. As far as the 3 die sets the “expander” (bell) is designed to Bell the top of the case mouth so you do not shave lead or copper from the sides of your bullets when seating. There is a difference between an expander and a bell. The expander is designed to run through your case neck to achieve the proper neck tension and the bell is just for expanding the case mouth to aid in bullet seating.
I have switched over to mostly bushing dies (yes, expensive) for my bottle neck cases in the last ten years, much easier on the brass as it is not getting worked in two directions.
March 31, 2009
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Erin Grivicich said
The whole purpose of inside neck lubing is to reduce the friction of the expander ball as it is drawn through the case neck. This reduces/eliminates neck stretch. I personally do not see a need to expand the neck in a separate step as a full length or neck sizing die does this for you. The neck is squeezed in the top portion of the die and is expanded on the down stroke AFTER the neck is pulled down from the sizing portion of the die. As far as the 3 die sets the “expander” (bell) is designed to Bell the top of the case mouth so you do not shave lead or copper from the sides of your bullets when seating. There is a difference between an expander and a bell. The expander is designed to run through your case neck to achieve the proper neck tension and the bell is just for expanding the case mouth to aid in bullet seating.
I have switched over to mostly bushing dies (yes, expensive) for my bottle neck cases in the last ten years, much easier on the brass as it is not getting worked in two directions.
Erin I use bushing dies for any rifle that I want to be as precise as possible. The bushing along with a modern expander can set the exact neck tension you desire. You can also set how much of the neck gets squeezed. We anneal our cases every time before sizing. You want the F/L die or the bushing die to squeeze the neck enough so it will not rebound too much. We move it .003″. I forget the exact term. Maybe yield point? Then the expander moves the neck back to your desired size and at the same time pushes any defects to the outside of the neck for smoother bullet release. I use a spray lube when sizing so the inside of the neck gets lubed. After sizing I use a 3 way cutter that indexes off the shoulder of the case that trims, chamfers and deburs all in one cut. Keeping all the necks the same length helps keep the neck tension the same. I just threw out 100 6.5 CM cases that had been shot 29 times with no failures. Definitely a few loose primer pockets.
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